It sounds to me like you're saying we should censor others in the fandom. Well, OK, but who decides? What crosses the line for me may not for another person. And there's always some one who says "NO!" to everything that's not 100% show derived. Freedom of speech is an icky thing. We have to tolerate things that we don't like, or throw the whole thing out.
Well Virgil, i an only say one fact Its a show made to sell products to little girls. Thats it, nothing else. now in Fosters home for imageafsj somethings.. there is an ep with the strange things teenagers think of and thats what the Fandom does, any fandom. Like Floxy, Gilson's Smooth, Silver lining and Iron hoof. My PentOct and Eclipses are a good case of what other minds do to things and twist them to our own thing. As for what Bronies stand for.....they stand for the same thing the rest of the internet stands for. We are now just another group of beings in the large playground of the internet. From the Facebookers to the Furies, The Motorheads to the weird porn sites. Its all just one the same thing. Hobbies. My Classic car is a hobby, so i talk to other people who own a similar car on teh internet to get help and laugh and joke My motorbike is a hobby so i do the same (mainly on facebook now) And our creative sides are a hobby and MLP has been the subject to release all this talent, you know the evil of tumblrs, youtube, the talent we have is UNBELIEVABLE! all because of 6 pascal coloured ponies, and your own talent which we have help feed and improve with our ideas. We now stand for the same thing the internet stands for, to be a pain the arse to the rest of the internet.
I can't remember, but one of the darker artists (CrookedTrees maybe?) mentioned they draw the darker art as a great release. Maybe it's creative or stress related, but I think that's a great reason either way.
Cervian, well written comments. I think most of the ponies here are feeling the same way. That is pretty much what I was getting at. Those things can exist as long as they exist "over there" and are not allowed in places like this, EQD, or Ponysquare. I still stand by what I said that my friends story of Pinkie Pies Last Party is fair for mainstream, (though not kids). If this or any of the other sites started showing heavy gore, pony porn, or any other distasteful stuff, I would leave. I don't want to see MLP corrupted either and we need to keep it at a fair balance. I don't want to see everything necessarily be for kids either.
I agree, because altogether it's a wonderfull show and has good messages. The thing i get scared of is when people literally overboard with some inaproprate content. However, I do see a balance though because i see an equal lot of funny and appopriate content for all ages. And to add on that there are trolls present in some of the content.
Notice, I said "Tolerance, yo". I don't love that side of the fandom, but I don't hate them either. Not saying this was implied by your points, Cerv, in which most I completely agree with, by the way. I take most things in life in my stride and accept what's happening, unless that thing affects those I care about or myself. R34 does not affect me, nor anyone. However, it clouds the judgement of those who don't know anything about bronies and somewhat makes them believe we all act the same way as a small collective, which is silly, but that's society.
@Cervarian -- I support the ideas and the freedom. The content is opinionated for anything beyond that. This site operates with strict rules against such content. 90% of the fandom is outright against the content you speak of, which is fine, but the fact that it exists at all makes it exploitable. Nothing we do can change this. People will always hate what they cannot understand or they fear. You're also going about "Love & Tolerate" the wrong way. Tolerance is not acceptance. The famous content has already been created. THE FANDOM made it famous. Specifically Equestria Daily and Cupcakes. It will take a long time to escape that shadow, but we will and they know their mistake. We have our rules, our community is one of the "lighter" sides of the fandom and aims to be that way. The darker tones remain in their places. They don't represent us, but they are a part of us. We accept this. What we want is for everything to be divided, where the shows message is what we are, and where the fans' creations borne from any idea remain fanworks in their own, respective corner. We have been accomplishing this, but it is the fandom to blame for our darker ideas being exposed to the point of fame. We can do nothing about the preconceptions the rest of the world developed beforehand; we can only continue to strive for showing them who we truly are as a whole, not who we can be in pieces.
You guys know that Bronies don't have to follow the love and tolerance thing right. I know of a few bronies who hate that part of the fandom. They get sick of the other bronies trying to make them do it. They watch the show for ponies and ponies only. They don't care about the Clop, gore, and all that stuff. I don't even think they know about it. You said that furries have a bad rep in the world, which is true. When I first heard about Furries, I was a little weirded out, but didn't care as long as they did there stuff away from me. So fox news doesn't like bronies, they come up with false stuff to throw at us. If they wanted to, I sure they could have used Clop/ Grimdark against us at any moment. This post would be longer and make more sense, but I've been up 22 hours, I can't think to well right now. SO yeah.
Here's the thing: Cupcakes, for the reasons you mentioned is a perfect narrative for Pinkie Pie? Why you may ask? Candy itself is nothing. Candy is not meant to be nutritious or able to sustain us in anyway, but a simple momentary sensation. Though the sensation you may feel is horror and disgust, cupcakes achives the same affect as Pinkie pie's "sweet" persona.
In my eyes--paralleling your journey of coming to understand the furry fandom--we never lost, or will. After the VAs hearing about all of the charities this fandom has accomplished, I pretty much disregard any view slated upon us. I'll defend us, of course. In the end, even if I don't bring them to light, we still stand. I liken us to a faith. One that has had a great impact, even in the shadow of ignorance.
Understand that my ability to give a crap is not as great as it normally is when I give my opinion on the thread subject: It's called, in slang, entropy. It happens. It's not like we're really a unified group or anything, no real code or standard beyond the vauge appelations that seem to stick. Stuff like Cupcakes, clop, bronies being flamers, etc. is bound to happen. And there's nothing anyone can do about it if the fandom wants to grow. Time will show whether the show and fandom have the ability to weather the detriments of entropy or not, but in the mean time, either get over it and continue to contribute positively to the fanbase and its' image or abandon ship now and spare yourself the trouble. Anything else is just a waste of your time, and a detriment to everyone else. PS: Aynine, you're in contact with Sethisto? I might be easily impressed on this, but still, that's wow. EDIT: Worth noting is that this is more aimed at Virgil than Cervarian, since Cervarian is quite eloquent with his point and therefore needs to be read much more in depth.
A bit of babbling here, but the first part is just about Cupcakes and not the fandom in general. On Cupcakes: First off, maybe this part would go better in a "Cupcakes!" thread, but I've also been waiting to get this off my chest for a while. I love Cupcakes. And no, I get no pleasure reading about Pinkie mutilating Rainbow Dash. It was revolting and nauseating, and it took two attempts just to read all the way through. But perhaps that part is necessary for what comes next. Because Pinkie doesn't hate Dash, and she derives no special pleasure from "hurting Rainbow Dash." She's happy that Dash is there and that they're friends; she really considers herself to be her friend... and she's also cutting her to ribbons "just 'cuz." So that mind bender I found kind of cute. The next interesting part is comparing the Cupcakes Pinkie character to the real Pinkie character, and I decided that the whole premise of Cupcakes is based on a deliberate misreading of "A Party of One," where Pinkie snaps because she (thought she) utterly failed to make her friends happy. Even when her idea of "fun" is slightly out of tune with other ponies', "having fun being tortured to death" is just so out there as to be impossible. So not only is Cupcakes' Pinkie absurd, but she was written to be "just plausible enough" for the express purpose of scaring us all. Finally, I'd apply the Cupcakes fanfic to the actual characters, and gauge their reactions (take this part with a grain of salt). I hypothesize that real Pinkie would read Cupcakes and, besides being grossed out, be completely unable to comprehend the motivations of Cupcakes Pinkie. Even if she would tie Rainbow Dash down, given the slightest encouragement (not necessarily so far out there; S2E2), she cannot knowingly have fun at another pony's expense (S1E5). Finally, I'd say Fluttershy of all ponies would be the only one able (timidly) to explain it to her. All in all, I thought it was a worthwhile read, although (or because?) it was horrid. And if this helps y'all look on it in a better light, then yay. [/CUPCAKES] ________________________________ On Love, Tolerance, etc.: Love I have no problem with. One ought to love everypony unconditionally, given that love is not an emotion, but rather the conscious decision to value the object of that love as an end in himself (or herself, obviously), and to value his betterment and well-being on par with one's own. I don't mean this to be a rigorous definition, but mainly just to differentiate it from "in bed" love, although that's good too (when appropriate, of course). Tolerance, on the other hand, I've had a beef with since forever. Maybe it's because I'm an engineer, but I associate it with "fault tolerance." That is, if I tolerate you, then I basically say "There's stuff majorly wrong with you, but I can deal with it because I'm awesome." Yeah, that's not so nice, but it's not to say that tolerance is bad. It is super important to stay objective and level-headed when there's something way screwed up about that other guy. It's just not something I would put in the same category as love. Sort of like saying "Harmony and Reliable Plumbing." In this sense, any interaction in which tolerance comes into effect is implied to have something gone wrong. Peacefully coexisting alongside others of different beliefs? Yeah, I could understand calling that "tolerance" despite neither party's belief's being called "wrong." But still, the "tolerance" part is that I don't break down from the stress of having you in the room: still internal -- "plumbing." BUT the fact that I don't lash out at you and run you out of town for the crime of existing with beliefs that are so wrong that they're actually different from mine -- that's squarely covered under "Love," IMHO. As a side note: I actually consider FIM to be at least somewhat anti-tolerance, especially given the aggressive attempt at reconciliation in Griffon the Brush Off, (although it's debatable whether "giving the benefit of the doubt" should be included under tolerance or just communication skills). I.e., "Better watch it, 'cause I'm on a hair trigger to love you all" or something cheesy to that effect. Sorry if I'm rocking the boat a bit here. :/ So then what do bronies stand for??? Quite literally, liking MLP. Liking MLP and going about our lives just the same as we would have anyway. Think about it: if my life philosophy as a brony were different from whatever it is in non-brony-related interactions, then one of them is wrong and should change to the more correct one! That's not to say that hasn't happened; I would like to think that my life is better because of MLP, not unchanged.
I must point out that we are very much putting meaning into a mere label for fans. An optional label, but an incredibly well meaning label that has led to good things.
That is a bit depressing. I don't think the fandom has gone astray, I still love it. I think there are certain people that get exposed to people that get over-indulged in the fandom. As well as the NSFW content out there. But I think these people need to realise that there is a dark side to every fandom. When something gets big it's going to have it's freaks, but at the same time it is also going to allow you to meet more awesome people. It may be different for some people who have not found a local community, but I have been going to brony parties of varying sizes (8-50) every week. It has made me become less of the closed in basement nerd stereotype and much more social. I also don't give a crap about NSFW stuff as long as it isn't shoved in my face, the bronies that are into that, respectfully make a great effort to keep it hidden from mainstream bronies. Or at least to have warning tags. As for Cupcakes, I don't get why people hate it so much. It was responsible for me personally discovering ponies in the first place. I have always been reading dark fan-fiction and published novels (Wizard's First Rule by Terry Goodkind) that are even worse. How is it different from any other popular horror movie like Saw or Hostel? I personally haven't seen those movies cause I am kinda scared of them. Yet for some reason when it comes to reading about gore, I can tolerate and even enjoy it.
me? well what i stand for is the right, people don't criticise religion, nor do they criticise the color of one man, or woman's skin, but then why criticise a person because of the show that they watch? i believe that we should have a right to watch my little pony and not be called gay, or a little girl, i believe that I...no not just me, Everyperson should have a right to watch what they want and not be made fun of, and when that happens, maybe, JUST MAYBE, we might be able to show the people who hate and criticise us, how much we don't care. And with this last sentence, i bid you a good day. HERO54123 ftw!
First of all I'll start on my view's on cupcakes. Cupcakes to me is like most horror films I've seen, which have all had very little plot to them, aside from something to drive the fright's which are constantly experienced. The thing that makes someone read cupcakes I would liken to wanting to suck a lemon. You know that it's probably not going to be a good experience, but you do it because either A) you want to test yourself against it, measure yourself, whatever you like to call it, or B) simply because it's something new to try. As to whether Cupcakes is a good or a bad thing, it's really quite a fuzzy section. There is a darkness inside people that fascinates the mind, the concept of the evil that exists inside us all taking over all the good inside us for an instant. There is nothing wrong with admitting that darkness exists, nor following your thoughts on it, but one cannot allow themselves to be ruled by it. Now I'm not trying to say that Cupcakes is a thing of pure evil, but like Cerv has said, we cannot allow for this to become the norm in the fandom. Fortunately, I don't think there is really much fear of this happening, dark fics and even grimdark ones often have some more narrative elements to them and, though there will always be fics such as cupcakes, they are in the distinct minority. Some people write the darker fics as a way to sort out their thoughts, while other times it may be creative, but only very rarely do we get creations such as Cupcakes or S.A.M. Clop and stuff is quite similar, it's there, but it's in the minority, and if were all going to be honest with ourselves, compared to the rest of the world, let alone other fandoms, we've managed to avoid a considerable amount of rule 34. Certainly for now, we're in the clear on this section, and most sites will keep this stuff hidden away from those who aren't looking for it. What we stand for? There is no real answer, we as a community simply stand to try and mend the dark places of the world, to try and bring some innocence into a world where hate, drugs, and sex are all intwined so that even music and humour seem to revolve around them. We stand for a way of life that value's differences, and understands that a community can never be whole unless it accepts and loves all its member's, despite all their flaws, maybe sometimes even for their flaws. I know that I stand for the right to be oneself, but being open-minded to new possibilities. Being yourself, yet learning from your experiences and allowing them to shape you. Just as I do this fandom treads a dangerous line, as it gains notice there are those that will try and destroy us. But we will not allow this to happen. I have seen this community and the great things it has achieved and know that there is no way we will just let ourselves be defeated. We stand for acceptance, we stand for peace, and we stand for the freedom to be ourselves. (Sorry if i got a bit carried away here, I started writing and then got really impassioned and the words just started to flow)
If reputation still existed you would get some for this post. You have pretty much restated what I said but in a much more eloquent way. I certainly do like to explore my dark side at times, that's what video games like grand theft auto where you blow people's head off with a shotgun are for. But IRL I felt emotional even spraying a red back spider, out of fear for my safety. Just because I couldn't know for sure if it ever would have intended me harm.
The morals that we constantly recycle and repeat are the fandom as a whole. Cupcakes and r34 represent small bits of the fandom. It's basically what is silently agreed upon. We strive for the positive approach and morals, but people think that our tolerance is an unfavorable double edge. Just because we're willing to let it slide (in its appropriate place) doesn't mean we flaunt or have allowed it to represent us willingly. As I stated, a substantial issue with Cupcakes is Equestria Daily. It was posted there, the largest fan related site for FiM there is, and flourished as a result of the very people that both like and despise it. I honestly haven't encountered any external criticism based on something like that, so the whole argument of Cupcakes's impact is purely speculative for me anyway. Even if our reputation remains 50-50, that's enough for me to not care about our image. We'll still be just intriguing enough for people to give the fandom a try.
