I don't think that Admins and Mods should get special pips. It will make the staff seem like a VIP club again.
While these are valid points, I think you're missing the point of pips. They're supposed to be rewards for people's achievements. Yes, it's true that some people will look with envy at those with lots and lots of pips, but that's only human nature. As long as they are obtainable by means that are accessible to everyone, seeing people with lots of them can inspire the people who want more to get more. The reason pips are a problem on FiM is because they're too exclusive. There are only three pips that can be earned relatively easily: The RP pip, Artist pip, and Post count pip. I got all three of those in my first two weeks on the site, and despite all my efforts I haven't been able to get any more since then because they're too exclusive. These are the ones they have there: -Post count: You get it when you make 5 posts, and at certain intervals I listed earlier it changes. -Artist: Earned by creating many pieces of art, be it digital, hand-drawn, or otherwise. I earned it with my MLP poetry. -RP: Earned by having an OC accepted for the RP section. -God Tier: Earned by being a member for a LONG time. There's a set date where, if you registered before that date, you get the pip. Every month, the God Tier date moves forward by one week, so every four months equals another year of waiting. I joined in August, so it's going to take over 2 years for me to get it, based on the current God Tier date, which is some time in November 2011. -Pony: Earned by making numerous contributions to the site, earning a lot of likes and reputation, and going through an application process. -RP Mod, Staff, Admin, Community Manager, Owner: All Self-explanatory -VIP: Earned by buying VIP membership. This can be purchased with a credit card or using bits, which is the currency used on the site. -Sponsor: Earned by buying Sponsor membership. It can be purchased with bits, but it costs a lot of bits and isn't permanent; you can only get Lifetime Sponsor with a credit card. -Elite: Earned by buying Elite membership. Again, you can spend a lot of bits for one month of Elite, and can only get Lifetime Elite for $300 with a credit card. -Designer: A staff position responsible for creating the pips, backgrounds, and stuff like that. -Custom pips: People with Elite membership or staff positions can have custom pips made, which only they have. The problem is I don't have a credit card, am not a staff member, and haven't been a member nearly long enough for God Tier or Pony. A vast majority of the pips they have are exclusively available to staff members and the people who are able to pay for membership with a credit card, so people who don't have credit cards or don't have enough income to afford paid membership are left in the dust. The reason people argue about pips on that site is because they're so biased; if there were more that could be earned by the 'average Joes" and less that required employment or financial transaction there wouldn't be all these problems. We can easily create a pip system that works well and harmoniously by making sure EVERYONE has the potential to get whatever pips there are. No, don't make it so people just get handed pips left and right, but make it so they can potentially get them if they work hard in various sections of the site.
Ok let me see if I have the hang of things right here. The idea here, is for pips, which would hang under our user name and above our avatar. Alrighty. Now for the implications. As for the pros. >It'd create a sense of motivation to post and be a little more constructive on the forums. Alrighty, that's pretty good. >It'd effectively be able to identify what users do what around the site. Again, another pretty good thing. Now let's look at the cons. >It has the potential to separate users through posting for ulterior motives. That can prove to be incredibly detrimental, however, the system itself can also be easily removed should we start seeing this. >This can effectively place some users higher on the scale than others. No, no, no. This will not do at all. The site is called "Everypony", and it is entirely counter productive to make some users seem better than others. I will absolutely not allow this site to have "Premium" and "Sponsor" memberships. This is not that kind of site, we are everypony, and everypony will be treated equally. Yes, I know, I have a flashy red name because I'm an Admin, but that serves the purpose of identification, not glorification. If we do go through with this, the pip will have to serve as identification, with the possibility of having small achievement pips. This of course means >ABSOLUTELY No Pay-for pips >No Post-count pips >No Staff pips >No Time-lock pips If we use pips, then they would only serve as a sort of "flashy" user title, and nothing more. This however, removes customization from the user titles we already have in return for an image to go along with it.
That's pretty much how I view it. The problems the pip system causes on FiM are caused by the fact that so many of the pips need to be bought or earned by being on staff. The poor handling and short-sightedness of the mods has made the system biased. As long as you only make pips that everyone has the potential to earn if they work for it, it will avoid causing any sort of elitist bias.
Before I continue, I think it would help if I explain my personal opinion of just why I like pips. They give me a feeling of accomplishment, because I actually did something to earn them. Whenever I get one, it makes me feel happy, because it makes me feel like I've done something worthwhile, something people thought was worth rewarding. And, admittedly, I do feel very envious when I see people with lots more pips than myself, but it's not as much because they have more than me as it is the fact that I don't have the physical means to catch up. Because I don't have a credit card, it would truly be impossible for me to catch up with those people, so my envy stems from the fact that they're showing off the fact that they have something I myself cannot possibly obtain. As long as there aren't any Elitist pips like that there shouldn't be as much of a problem, because everyone will have the means to obtain whatever pips are available. Also, it's not really a matter of judging people or comparing them to each other; it's a way for each individual to test their own personal abilities. It's not a contest unless people make it one. It's purely based on each person's individual achievements. In addition, because there would be no Elitist pips, and everyone would be able to get every pip available with a little work, we wouldn't have to worry about people sulking about their lack of pips. For example, any given newbie might end up seeing the veteran members with tons of pips and think "wow, that's awesome." It wouldn't make them feel insignificant; it would give them a goal to shoot for. If they really care about the pips, they'll do what it takes to earn the pips they want. It's only a problem if there's truly no way for them to earn a specific pip. After all, they would realize that the reason they don't have those pips is because they haven't been here long enough to get them. You have far more posts than me, but I don't resent you for it, because I realize you've been here for over a year and I just got here yesterday. You have far more posts and are far more well-known around here because you're a veteran and I'm a newbie; I just haven't had the time to make the same kinds of accomplishments as you have yet. PS: As you can see I've now added a poll to the thread, so we can keep track on just how many people like the idea or not.
OK, guys, as much as I love seeing your discussion here, you've both made you points and it's much appreciated. However, this is starting to go in circles and become way too convoluted. Just let some other members catch up, read your reasons as to why it's a good or bad idea, and allow them to share their opinions on it. It's much better to get the opinions of more people as opposed to trying to change the opinion of one.
Well, my main reason for wanting it here is for the sense of accomplishment that comes with being rewarded each pip. It just makes me feel special, knowing I've passed a milestone and earned something as a result of my hard work. And, as I mentioned, the system on FiM is so biased that it kills the fun of it. Their pips are too limited and Elitist, so it's not fair. That's my second reason for wanting it here, so it can be done right, in a place where the mods aren't a bunch of stuck up, Elitist stooges.
One simple way to look at it is by remembering the words of my High School Latin Teacher "What's the worst that can happen? You get it wrong, and we all laugh at you." Because both of us have raised valid points, both in favor of and against a pip system, perhaps it would be helpful to simply try it as an experiment for a little while, see how it's going, and then make a final decision about if it's worth it or not. Either way, I think you and I should agree to disagree at this point. I don't want this to devolve from a debate into an argument after all
Okay guys, I think this discussion has dragged on for long enough. We'll bring this into moderator discussion and report back on what we're going to do with the idea. If you have any point you missed and would like to add, send me a PM with them, but otherwise, we'll take care of the rest. ~Locked~
