Feminism

That guy sure uses "equity" a lot. He must love finance.

 

Equity can mean just fairness.

 

It's certainly branched off from what it used to be. I'm all for women being on a level playing field with men, but in order for women to be granted some of which is still exclusively for men, they must be willing to give up their own privileges. Some self-proclaimed "feminists" I've known are the world's biggest hypocrites - "Give me this, give me that…wait, you want me to give up WHAT? CHAUVINIST PIG!" It's pretty silly.

And don't even get me started on the misandrists. Blaming men for all the their problems, yet they sit on their posteriors and do nothing to try and solve those problems themselves? Progress!

 

I'm aware, but it's far from the normal use of the word.

 

Remember that Family Guy episode where Peter went to some camp because of sexual harassment and then he started acting like a chick? Yeah, towards the end the one lady says it's Lois's fault he was so demeaning towards women, because she liked being a housewife and mother instead of a career woman.

Lois had a little speech at the end that pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter...I'm all for equality (equal employment and education opportunities, etc.) but I think some go too far and push the idea that if a woman isn't strong, independent and all "girl power! I dun need no man!" that implies that a woman should be ashamed or guilty if she is more comfortable with more traditional gender roles. It's a lot like how magazines and TV push the idea that if you don't look like all these gorgeous models in their programming, then you're not beautiful. And I don't think that's a good thing.


My opinion on this comes from the fact that I used to be friends with a woman who preferred her relationship that way - one where her husband lead and she followed. Basically I'm of the opinion that you should be able to live how you want, without societal pressure to be one way or the other, but have the opportunities available to you should you wish to take them.

 

I know my statement may have come across slightly anti feminist before...but I'm not....I'm just sick and tired of situations where people complain about nothing...for example in new Zealand there is a massive debate over how much is paid for the unemployment benefit...and often you see people who are apparently on the benefit and struggle to feed themselves...but it's hard not to notice the fact t hay they are using an iPhone or have a huge TV etc etc....I'm tried of people expecting more just for the sake of being even more better off...not against feminists but lets just get all those who aren't actually doing it for equality out please?

 

Stuff like that happens in America, too. It's really odd.

And, again, your period key seems to be broken.

 

I can see how you feel that way.

You're right about one thing; the only feminists you're talking about are the tumblr variety. That's not real feminism, that's its twisted, contorted offspring that sucks at the teat of patriarchy while simultaneously condemning it. I don't like those people either.

 

So sorry to bump, but this will end up being the discussion that brings me back. And seeing as it hasn't been a full month.

A lot of people comment on feminism being a less than desirable movement, but don't give examples, and the examples I see are of "feminists" who aren't even doing anything. Does anybody even know what the feminist movement does or even is?

Although there are examples of sexism still present here in the states and other developed countries (I'll get into that in a minute) the majority of work that I've done has been for organizations overseas, where women lack societal power, votes, access to birth control and abortions, and basic human rights as to what the can wear or where they can work. I've raised money with GoOverSeas for organizations in Lebanon, Palestine, China, and Turkey (if you can believe that!). The majority of feminists are concerned for the rights of women everywhere because we believe that sexism is not a "cultural context" i.e. "its ok, its their culture." Those who say feminism is a joke are wildly misinformed. Feminism may seem like a joke, but for many (certainly a majority of women in the world) it's all they have.

To those who believe sexism isn't present in the US today, see how many if these you can answer correctly:

Spoiler: In how many states is abortion illegal?

10

Spoiler: Approximately how much more do men make annually compared to women (regardless of race)?

19.1% (almost 1/5!)

Spoiler: In what year were over 150 female prisoners sterilized *without consent* in California?

2013

Spoiler: When was the Equal Rights Amendment passed, guarunteeing equal rights to women?

We're still waiting.

Know the facts before defacing feminism. Sorry for the long rant, I'm just sad how uninformed the general public is on this. Glad to see some bronies understand. Also, hello again, EP.

 

Wow... just wow.

Let's see how many of these you can answer?

Spoiler: How many people does it take for a pregnancy to occur?

Two.

Spoiler: How many states allow the father of an unborn child to prevent an abortion?

Zero.

Spoiler: How many men are falsely accused of rape every year?

Nobody knows, but it believed that as many as 1 in 10 rape cases are based on false accusations.

Spoiler: How many of those sterilized woman were in prison for serious felonies, including murder and child molestation?

All of them.

Spoiler: How many laws exist to protect MEN from discrimination?

Zero.

I have met many sexists in my life, and almost all of them were WOMEN.

 

All though their are extremists and militants on every spectrum of politically driven movements I believe social liberties are a thing to be celebrated. That being said you can be a person who believes in a social movement (or fandom for that matter) but that certain aspect of your personality doesn't need to be a full representation of yourself. Example, I am Straight-Edge. I believe abstinence to Drugs, Alcohol, and promiscuous sex is my choice in life. Do I tell everyone who smokes/drinks that they should adopt my lifestyle and become straight-edge? No, I lead by example. I feel this "Posi" (Leading by example) attitude is the best way to tackle the misogyny, racism, and homophobia in our society. Being a movement of hatred doesn't help to justify massive demonstration (Hopefully Pacifist) of social equality. It's like an Anti-Fascist saying all people who are blond haired and blue-eyed are evil because of the Aryan Brotherhood and "All of them could become one" Feminism is a great idea, just like every Civil Right. We all have the right to be free from persecution of things we don't have control over. Sex, Gender Identity, Sexuality, Nationality, and Race are all things we will never have control over. What we do have control over is going about changing it.

Now the feminists I have known tend to not be militant so I will never say the Feminist movement is a group of terrible warmongering people. Feminism is a good social movement but (Like most civil rights movements) have been perceived as hateful anti-male "Nazis." Their might be some Feminists who are the loudest that give media outlets a cookie-cutter picture of what feminism is but I can tell you it's not the case.

 

I feel the need to point out a couple of things here:

For one, it's highly debatable whether the outlawing of abortion has any basis in sexism alone. Many feminists claim it to be an outright war on women's choice, while pro-lifers will tell you that it has nothing to do with keeping women down and everything to do with preserving the sanctity of human life. Personally, I think the claim of "her body, her choice" is sexist in and of itself as it undermines the male's role in parenting. It would stand to reason that since the act of coitus was consensual between both partners at the time of conception, it'd only be fair that the decision to abort would be joint. No one party should lay claim to that level of power on their own, but that's just my personal ideology.

For another, the equal pay issue is horrendously misunderstood by feminists, whether they're intentionally skewing the facts or whether it's due to simple ignorance. If you do a little research, you'll find that these figures do not apply to women who work the same jobs, for the same amount of hours, do the same quality of work, have the same educational background, and have worked there for the same amount of time as men. There are so many more variables included that actually make a huge difference in explaining the disparity of wage gaps. Here's some of what many feminists are not taking into account when they cite these figures as "proof" of inequality: men still dominate full-time jobs while women still dominate part-time jobs; job positions with elevated pay and health benefits due to an ever-present risk of injury or death are still predominantly held by men; and differences between education status (i.e., degrees) are yet another factor. Any way you look at it, men, in general, are going to continue to earn more than women until these issues even out.

Bottom line, feminism is not resented because men don't want women on their level. It is resented because many modern feminists are dwelling on perceived inequalities as opposed to ones that actually (and provably) exist, and in doing so, they aren't doing women any favors. And that's all to say nothing of the rampant misandry that has dominated the current wave of feminism for as long as I can remember.

 

You are putting words into my mouth, Ridley. "Feminism" is not "anti-masculinism." Until you realize that, I feel this will go in circles.

Thanks for breaking it down Flash. I understand men have afflictions too. I would like to point out the law I mentioned states EQUAL rights for men AND women, so it makes no sense this would be targetted.

The abortion issue I can understand, but I want to also point out one person gets pregnant, thus one person gets an abortion, a procedure that pretty unavoidably hurts your body. The actual surgery leaves behind scar tissue and with each abortion, your ability to have children is chipped at. It's not "oh, let's go to the doctor and it'll all be better." It runs about $500 to $800 for abortion PILLS. Abortion surgeries can KILL women. Obviously, being male, you never looked down that road, but it's a scary one.

As formen making more than women, have you considered this may be an educational issue and not necessarily an issue within the workplace?

 

Actually, I believe you're putting words into my mouth; I didn't say feminism equated to misandry (the proper term), I said that misandrist sentiments are rampant among many women who claim to be feminist. And this is true. Not all feminists are this irrational, I realize that. But the fact that so many irrational ones exist is the reason people have such a negative view of modern feminism in the first place.

Never mind this post...although I suppose the point still stands.

 

I was not putting words into your mouth.

I was pointing out that there are two sides to every story, and, in my opinion, your views are very biased in favor of women.

I am against feminism, and I always will be, because I see it as yet another way that people are segregating themselves.

Spoiler: Now go make me a sammich, woman!

In case it wasn't obvious, this part was meant as a joke.

 

When did I ever make the indication that it wasn't taxing on a woman's body? Of course it is. That still doesn't change the fact that the child is just as much the responsibility of the father as it is the mother, regardless of whose body it's in. I still stand by abortion being a joint decision.

...But for the record, abortion is no more or less a health risk than actually going through with childbirth natrually, so I don't even know why you brought it up, really.

I'm not sure I follow. I don't see how that'd make much of a difference on the fact that there is a legitimate and non-sexist reason that men make more than women on average.

 

I going to have to disagree with you here. While it is true that the woman carries the child, that child is as much the father's as it hers.
The way the laws currently stand, a man has absolutely no say as to whether or not his unborn child lives or dies.
If the woman decides that carrying a baby for nine months is an inconvenience to her, she can choose to end the pregnancy, and there is almost nothing that the father can do to stop her.
What's worse, if he does try to prevent it, he is instantly vilified by "women's rights activists," simply for wanting his child to live.

 

So... if I'm reading this correctly, you believe that men and woman should be equal in everything, EXCEPT for making the literal life or death decision of whether or not to kill an unborn child?
It takes two people for a pregnancy to happen, therefore, it should take two people to decide to end it.

(The obvious exceptions to this rule are rape, incest, or if the pregnancy puts the woman's life at risk.)