Ukrainian Kiev Riots

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Saikyo, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Saikyo

    Saikyo That One Dog
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    I'm sure everyone has heard of this by now.

    Dozens of people on both sides have been killed. Police have been authorized to use lethal automatic weapons on unarmed protesters, and have even gone so far as to shoot medics on the protesters' side, which in and of itself is a war crime.


    Now what caused all of this? Naturally, a corrupt government, at least in the eyes of the protesters... I'd like to call them revolutionaries now, because that's basically what they are.

    If this doesn't stop, The Ukraine will definitely enter Civil War.


    Have some videos of the violence in Kiev. Keep in mind this is rather heavy stuff, so please stay mature and keep the Ukrainians in your thoughts today.


    BTR being burned by protesters.


    Protesters being fired upon by Ukrainian Military.


    Pretty much the cause of all this.


    Ukrainian protesters raid a building; the video does not tell you that after the police officers surrendered, they let them go.
     
    #1 Saikyo, Feb 20, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  2. Dilly Star

    Dilly Star The Dilliest in the Galaxy
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    I had heard about this, but it's interesting to get more details.

    I hope the violence ends soon.
     
  3. Bright Heart

    Bright Heart Returned from Tartarus

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    Technically it wasn't a corrupt government that caused the whole thing, it was division between east and west. People wanted Ukraine to have closer ties to the west and take a EU money plan thing but instead the prime minister/president of Ukraine decided to just nope his voters and decided to have closer ties with Russia instead. What makes this even worse is that yesterday/few days ago (by the time I'm posting this) they signed a peace treaty of sorts. Now it's even more violent than before with police snipers shooting at protestors.

    Finally I full heartily want the protestors to win unlike during the Arab spring when I was skeptical of the new government they planned. But I guess seeing as Ukraine is more democratic than other countries it could work out a lot better.
     
  4. Rarit E

    Rarit E *clank*clank*clank*clank*
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    I said the same thing about Syria.


    But yeah, I can understand the protestors, and i can understand the police would want to do some riot control and whatnot, but who in their right mind would tell them it's ok to use live ammo? I mean, why?

    And even going as far as shooting the medics, what's the point? Where's the logic in doing that?

    These guys aren't police, army, or whatever. What they're doing right now destroys everything they should stand for. They're just psychopaths with guns now...
     
  5. Dilly Star

    Dilly Star The Dilliest in the Galaxy
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    And what I find unfortunate about the implications of these events is that they could mar the upcoming elections; given the current violence, whichever party loses might just decide to perpetuate the mounting conflict. It's hard to have an election in that kind of political atmosphere. I agree that it would be nice if we could see the police brutality decrease. It certainly isn't helping to calm the protesters.
     
  6. Sparkypony

    Sparkypony Antisocial ponyality disorder

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    Its already a civil war at this point.

    Lot of those going down these past few years. Egypt...Syria...Venezuala...Brazil...and now Ukraine...
     
  7. Princess Twilight Sparkle

    Princess Twilight Sparkle The Cake Eater
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    I tend to watch the news too much these days and it still frightens me that these tragic events are happening in one country after another. No offence to Syria, Egypt and Libya but I thought Ukraine would of had this sorted, Considering how much closer it is to both The EU and Russia. I thought the President would of resigned by now and then Voting to begin within months, But now the earliest they'll see it is December. The whole world can see The Government is corrupt, Yet the UN,EU and all these other "United Leaders" have handled the situation poorly. There's 45 Million people here left in limbo and they are civilized enough to negotiate terms without violence.
    I really hope they can find Peace soon.
     
  8. mike406

    mike406 Moderator
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    It's not all that surprising, they'll sort it out one way or another I suppose.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
     
  9. Sparkypony

    Sparkypony Antisocial ponyality disorder

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    Or they'll keep killing eachother and we get a repeat of ww1 until either the UN or Russia get involved.
     
  10. Saikyo

    Saikyo That One Dog
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    This is a new letter written by a russian and translated into english by a friend of a friend who is in the Ukraine.

    Read it all. It's eye opening.

    FEBRUARY 2014 EVENTS IN UKRAINE: OPEN LETTER TO RUSSIANS IN RUSSIA FROM KIEV
    (Translated from Russian)
    Digest:
    This is the open letter to the Russian public, written by someone (need to find out who exactly) in Kiev, February 19 2014, on the day when snipers killed lots of people on the Maidan, in front of the live web cameras. This letter apparently went viral among Russian-speaking supporters of the Maidan protesters. The language of the letter is very strong, because emotions were very strong that day, and for a good reason. The author gives a brief account of the events: how they got started, and how they unfolded. He expresses frustration with the meddling of Russian authorities, and with the conformity and servility of Russian mass media and Russian public opinion. This letter is translated from Russian to English for the benefit of non-Russian speaking Ukrainian diaspora, and for all people who do not read Russian or Ukrainian but are interested in the ‘first-hand account from the member of the general public’. It also dispels the widely expressed opinion that at the root of the trouble in Ukraine is the conflict between Russian-speaking and Ukrainian-speaking groups and regions. The author writes and thinks in Russian, but it does not prevent him from supporting the struggle of the Maidan or condemning depraved Russian influence.

    ENGLISH TRANSLATION


    Dear friends,
    I am writing to those who are in Russia, because everyone in Ukraine already knows and understands everything I want to say. I decided to write this after receiving yesterday many bizarre messages and inquiries from Moscow. I have the full impression that there no one understands what’s going on in Kiev, and this is why I want to do some explaining. I think I have the right to do that, since I am Russian, was born in Moscow, but live in Ukraine for seven years now. I have family, two kids, and a teaching job here.
    Everything that is happening now in Ukraine is not a conflict between the government and the radicals. There are no two sides here, and we cannot even talk about attempts to resolve the conflict through the talks, or through ‘plowing with the tanks’ as some are suggesting in Russian mass media. Here’s what we have. For four years now we have lived with Yanukovych. He won elections with the microscopic lead, and with massive election fraud, especially in the Eastern Regions. Once elected, he grabbed an unprecedented power for himself, changing the Constitution for this purpose. He took 35 billion dollars in credits. He jailed his election opponent using drummed-up charges. In four years Ukraine grew impoverished. Now it is impossible to conduct business here, pay taxes, or do any creative work. Health care, education, city services – all totally deteriorated. Against this backdrop, our country was re-modelled to fit the needs of Yanukovych’s family. His son suddenly became a multi-billionaire. Yanukovych himself became the third-most-expensive President to upkeep – after Obama and Putin. His one day costs us 2 million US dollars. For the last six months he kept telling us that the problems of Ukraine would be solved if we sign the treaty with the European Union. Every day we were told that, with the detailed explanations. One day before the treaty was due to be signed, he announced that he changed his mind and did not even care to give any reason why.
    In Kiev, several hundred people took to the Maidan. They said they want the treaty to be signed; they want something to be changed. Not that everyone wanted to be in the European Union that much, but this treaty was seen as a hope for some reforms, for some improvement of our life. Those people kept gathering for several days, and then their numbers dwindled. When only five hundred remained, Ukrainian special security forces, Berkut (Hawks) attacked them. People were severely beaten, chased all around downtown, roughed up, and packed into the police vans. Many took refuge in Michailovsky Sobor (St. Michael Cathedral). This action caused such an outrage that on the next day the Maidan gathering was revitalized. Those who showed up this time demanded that organizers of the beatings should be punished according to the law. Yes, they also occupied the building of the city administration, and tried to come close to the President’s Administration building, but it is difficult to control a furious crowd a million people strong. Nobody demanded Yanukovych’s resignation yet. People just said that they will stay on the Maidan until the perpetrators are punished. After ten days, police tried to clear up the Maidan by force. They did not succeed. After this authorities abandoned all civilized rules and norms. People connected to the Maidan protests were snatched, kidnapped, beaten, tortured, and killed. Around the city, government-sponsored gangs of thugs, dubbed “Titushki” by the population, began to attack anyone they did not like. The Maidan was still going strong. After a month of a stand-off, parliamentarians from Yanukovich’s party rammed through the package of laws that made everybody standing on the Maidan a criminal: with fifteen years of prison as a sentence. It had become very clear that Yanukovych did not want to punish organizers of the first attempt to dissolve the protesters, did not want to fire any of his associates, did not want to have talks about anything. People got desperate, and not knowing what to do began to storm the government city blocks. Now they had nothing to lose, since each one was standing to receive fifteen years in jail anyway. Street fights begun to break out. All regions of Ukraine except Donetsk and Crimea rose up. That’s it. There is no split, no division in Ukraine. It is stupid and foolish to think so. Then Yanukovich got scared, cancelled repressive laws and sacked the Prime Minister. The truce was going on for almost a month. During this month he participated in talks and promised to do something. During this month an operation to liquidate Maidan protest was planned and prepared. Russian secret services provided inputs for this plan.
    The day before yesterday our Parliament was scheduled to discuss new Constitution changes, designed to limit the powers of the President. They also were about to vote to nominate a new Prime Minister. Maidan activists decided to organize a demonstration near Verhovna Rada (Supreme Council – the Parliament of Ukraine). They wanted to remind the people’s elected representatives about their responsibilities. When they marched to the Rada, they were met by Berkut (special riot police) and Titushki (government-sponsored thugs). People were beaten and hit by stones. Rubber bullets and Molotov cocktails were strewn at them from the rooftops. People dispersed and retreated. After that, a new attack on the Maidan has begun. Everything was prepared in advance. Kiev’s metro (underground) was shut down. All roads to the city were blocked by concrete barricades and heavy construction trucks. In the downtown electricity and telecommunications were cut off. Authorities thought they will take over the Maidan in two hours and suppress the protest. Mass arrests of participants and their supporters were planned for the next morning. But the Maidan stood strong, even though Berkut used armored personnel carriers, water cannons, and shrapnel –packed hand grenades. The Ukrainian security services issued firearms to the Titushki (thugs). The Titushky began to shoot the pedestrians on the streets, loot the stores, and set parked cars on fire. I don’t know what would have happened if they prevailed. But the Maidan stood on.
    Yesterday half of the country erupted. The Metro is still not working. It is dangerous to move around the city – armed Titushki kill people everywhere, even in my own neighborhood. Berkut and police take people from the streets, torture them and kill them. Wounded are taken from the hospitals, loaded into police vans, and removed to unknown locations. Today, when some military units declined to participate in the battle, Berkut and Titushki got automatic rifles. Right now, today on the Maidan, snipers killed dozens of people. Yanukovich summons to the city not only the riot police, but the military personnel in full combat gear.
    Think about it. Yesterday there was a talk about eighty people killed and thousands wounded. Many of those wounded lost their eyes, arms. Many have burnt lungs, since gas grenades were used mercilessly. Hospitals are overflowing. The Titushki assault the medical personnel and set ambulances on fire.
    I want to say that in this situation there is no division along any legitimate political lines. Yanukovych is a murderer and a tyrant, a totally deranged man. He is not interested in anything besides preserving his own power. There can be no two opinions about it, like there can be no two opinions about Hitler. The things that are being said out loud in Russia, about ambitious Klichko, about ‘plowing the Maidan with tanks’ pushes our countries to levels of animosity unprecedented in history. Don’t believe the Russian mass media, even the liberal ones! There is no division, no standoff. There is a deranged, sick man with the criminal past. He wants to drown our country in blood.
    I want everybody in Russia to take a pause and think. All of this would not be happening if not Putin, who backed up and encouraged Yanukovych, told him to disperse the Maidan. And be warned that Berkut members have the same mindset as Putin. They decorate their uniforms with “St.George’s Cross” stripes. I am afraid this symbol will become a synonym of the swastika very soon. The responsibility for the events in Kiev lies on Russians, who got addled up by their imperialistic chauvinism. Russia, which built up one of the most disgusting political regimes in human history, which supported and still supports all the cannibals of the world, starting with Lukashenko and ending with Asad, Russia is guilty first and foremost. Here, in Kiev, I am ashamed that I am a Russian.
    I am sure in a couple of years from now, when the era of oil super-profits will come to an end and it will become clear that Putin is not capable of managing anything, then the same story will be happening in Russia as well. The government buildings in the regions will burst up in flames. Federal republics will announce their secession. And then Putin will be left with a million policemen, half-a-million Security Services, and a million United Russia party members. And he will try to drown Russia in blood in the same way Yanukovych is doing right now, because they can do nothing else. And then everyone in Russia will understand what’s going on in here. But for now you can enjoy your Olympics, and your travels to exotic destinations. There is still a little time left.
     
  11. Princess Twilight Sparkle

    Princess Twilight Sparkle The Cake Eater
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    That was quite a story. It shows that the mad man will do anything and recruit anyone to go up against his opposition. I'm not sure what to make of Putin's role in this because we all know he's got tight reins on Russia and many of the Ex-Soviet states but surely he can't justify Yanukovych's actions.
     
  12. Sparkypony

    Sparkypony Antisocial ponyality disorder

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    So basically the Ukrainian president is the second coming of Stalin.
     
  13. Snow

    Snow The Snowiest of Snows
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    Well, at least there's good news now; the president is now a fugitive, a new government is being put in place, but Russia is getting really mad about it.
     
  14. Sparkypony

    Sparkypony Antisocial ponyality disorder

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    Who cares about Russia? They need a renovation anyway. People are poorer than the hobos i see on the street everytime i go to get lunch. Sochi was just them wasting billions of dollars on an acid trip to say "We don't suck" except the whole intro and outro would only make sense to someone on shrooms. While the hotels were made of cardboard and duct tape.

    But yeah hopefully someone can put a bullet in Josef Stalin Version 2's head.
     
  15. Crimson Lionheart

    Crimson Lionheart Professional Sh*tposter
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    Seeing how Ukraine was extremely important to the Soviets during their era, Russia has had it's eyes on it since it's independence.

    But..since has Russia ever been topian?
     
  16. Sparkypony

    Sparkypony Antisocial ponyality disorder

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    It was a dystopia in the Soviet era, and it still is, although with less goverment sponsered mass murder and slave labor.
     
  17. Crimson Lionheart

    Crimson Lionheart Professional Sh*tposter
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    Seeing how Ukraine is basically on the brink of Civil War, it would be a dick move for Russia to interfere, especially since the remainder of Europe and America disagree on Russia having their eyes on Ukraine in the first place.
     
  18. Snow

    Snow The Snowiest of Snows
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    The sad part is that if Russia were to interfere militarily, it would likely lead to an UN action similar to the Korean War or the Gulf War
     
  19. Crimson Lionheart

    Crimson Lionheart Professional Sh*tposter
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    Western Ukraine (Closest to rest of Europe) is incredibly rich when placed in comparison to the remainder of the country, especially the Russian dominated Eastern Ukraine. Some gunmen are being cheered by pro-Russian demonstrators, where one protest leader proclaimed: ‘We’ve been waiting for this moment for 20 years. We want a united Russia.’”

    Seeing how that the high majority of the country speaks Russian, this makes sense due to Ethic and cultural reasons. Not to mention that the Crimea is directly below them, making Ukraine a very important strategic spot for Russia if a war were to break out in Europe. And seeing that Ukraine was the Soviet Union's powerhouse during the 20th Century. Well...Russia would love the opportunity to have the country back under their borders.

    It's gone past peaceful protests, it's surpassed the aspects of a Revolution. This is an inch away from Civil War. I don't know how it's going to end at the moment, but I think it wont end well in the long term. Expect more bloodshed...
     
    #19 Crimson Lionheart, Feb 28, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2014
  20. Yamiookami

    Yamiookami EP's Resident Yami

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    I was under the impression that the killing has been done by the government against protestors. Wouldn't that make it a revolution instead of a civil war, which is more two ideological factions fighting each other, rather than the people and the government?
     

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