Why the Twilight/Tirek fight, and not, say, Naruto and Bleach?

Discussion in 'General MLP Discussion' started by Commander_PonyShep, Aug 4, 2014.

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  1. Commander_PonyShep

    Commander_PonyShep An Everypony Regular
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    I know I've been talking a lot about the Twilight/Tirek fight, but just want to ask a question, and I promise you it'll be quick.

    As of right now, Naruto and Bleach are ending, and for all the wrong reasons. I never read much of either manga or watched either anime, but most of the complaints I received centered on the long, slow-paced fights and story-arcs that take too many chapters/episodes to end, the constant over-empowerment of Naruto, Sasuke, Ichigo, and their main-villains, and the disempowerment and sidelining of their many friends. And, every time I look at those complaints, I can't help but think about why the Twilight/Tirek fight was actually successful for the same reasons Naruto and Bleach are failing right now. I mean, when you look at the S4 finale and compare it to Naruto and Bleach, it also hinged on the disempowerment of the Mane Five, and the over-empowerment of Twilight Sparkle.

    So why? Why love the Twilight/Tirek fight, when it's almost as problematic and broken as the majority of Naruto and Bleach right now?
     
  2. Bot-chan

    Bot-chan A Pony Every Pony Should Know

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    I've never seen the Naruto anime or anything of Bleach, but I could imagine that the Twilight/Tirek fight was so much more beloved because the show creators packed all the pure awesomeness of an epic battle into a scene that didn't even last 10 minutes. It looked cool and didn't overstay its welcome.
    On the other hand, most anime series I know tend to drag out these battles a lot over multiple episodes (or even full seasons) with barely any plot to break up the monotony of the constant fighting and it gets really boring after a while.
     
  3. Echoax

    Echoax Greed Probably
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    Bleach and Naruto have been going on forever as far as I know. They've probably had many epic fights and since the shows focus is people fighting they have to do it. It's always fighting this or training to beat up this dude. Dragon Ball Z had Frieza and Goku fight for 17 episodes. You just stop caring at that point.

    Twilight's fight was different cause it last like 5 minutes and did away with the OHKO Elements.
     
  4. Tempest Wind

    Tempest Wind Princess of the Forum
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    Naruto is not failing at all. He is way more powerful than his friends, but it's supposed to be that way. The last fight is dragging on forever(2+ years I think in the manga) but I still get excited for each chapter because there's always at least some kind of progression. I don't find it tedious at all.

    I liked Twilight's fight because it was very unexpected to see that in MLP. I'm sure most of us were expecting Elements of Harmony, Power of Friendship and such, yadda yadda. It was nice to see Twilight kickin' some serious ass for once. Also, she was more powerful than Tirek and would have undoubtedly won if he hadn't used hostages. What a woose.

    One more thing. Naruto isn't completely ending anytime soon. There will be a part 3.
     
  5. Commander_PonyShep

    Commander_PonyShep An Everypony Regular
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    So, the reason Twilight's fight with Tirek succeeded compared to Naruto and Bleach's fights, is because it only lasted a minute instead of over 26+ episodes. Not only that, but it ended with a draw, and was proof that alicorn magic meant absolutely nothing next to the power of friendship.

    You know, I'd like to say that Twilight's fight with Tirek was the moment MLP jumped the shark. Up until the ending, the show deliberately tossed aside everything that made it good in the first place, just to turn into DBZ, Naruto, and Bleach, minus the slow-pace, the dragging, and the repetitiveness.

    And, since you liked the Twilight/Tirek fight so ridiculously much, that the power of friendship no longer mattered to you, that you want MLP to just give up on friendship, love, tolerance, all that jazz, just to become nothing but blow-up-the-world fight scenes that sidelines the Mane Five while making Twilight stupidly overpowered.

    Also, Tempest Wind, what you described about Naruto also describes One Piece. Like Naruto, Luffy is also the strongest member of his own circle of friends, while at the same time said circle also has weaklings like Nami, Usopp, and Chopper. But at the very least, One Piece ensured that every member of the Straw Hat Pirates, EVEN THE WEAKLINGS, all received just as much attention as Luffy, and that they all had their own resourcefulness in terms of their powers and weapons, even outside of combat. Not only that, but Luffy's powers, even his Haki, are several times more limited than Naruto's and Ichigo's, just so that Eiichiro Oda could emphasize his desire to protect and unite his friends, more so than how much firepower he's packing compared to Naruto and Ichigo.

    Naruto, not so much. Now, as a disclaimer, I'm only talking about what I heard from other people's opinions, as I never read much of Naruto or watched the anime version. But based I what I kept hearing, Naruto deliberately sidelines many of the title protagonist's friends and run out of ideas on what to do with them, while Naruto and Sasuke becomes stupidly overpowered and over-utilized. This is in total contrast to my description of One Piece, even post time-skip!

    And if One Piece is capable of staying true to its roots, even after the two-year time-skip, then why not My Little Pony, which used to emphasize friendship just as much as One Piece, more so than Naruto and Bleach?
     
    #5 Commander_PonyShep, Aug 5, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2014
  6. Tempest Wind

    Tempest Wind Princess of the Forum
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    Calm down. You're making way too big a deal about it.:DFH:
     
  7. Commander_PonyShep

    Commander_PonyShep An Everypony Regular
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    I have every right to *****, moan, whine, complain, etc. about it. My Little Pony is dead to me! And not only did Meghan McCarthy kill MLP, but also the bronies themselves! They want MLP to give up its friendship motif to become murder and mass destruction, on the level of Naruto, Bleach, and DBZ!

    Remember the Mane Five? Well, screw them, because they're useless and disposable! Let's focus on Twilight and her power levels, and make her blow up the universe to demonstrate all that godlike power! Screw love and friendship, because now it's about whoever can blow up the universe the most, just like Naruto, Bleach, and DBZ!
     
  8. Tasu

    Tasu The Knug

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    Many good tv shows focus on friendship and stuff like that and have awesome fight scenes, just because mlp had one fight scene doesn't mean that they will stop focusing on friendship (and it is the mane six not the mane five)
     
  9. Bot-chan

    Bot-chan A Pony Every Pony Should Know

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    No, you are the one screwing love and friendship. For someone who loves putting so much importance to it, you sure display a great lack of it yourself. Instead, you just jump on far-fetched conclusions and create much drama for... what exactly?

    Seriously, all ll I see from you is "Oh no, the makers dared to include a five minute action sequence into my little pony, the show is now ruined forever and everyone who still likes the show is stupid and I totally hate them waah waah waah!"

    Calm down and grow up a little, will you? It's a cartoon show. It's supposed to be entertaining. Relax!

    Or just go back to watching the pre-season 4 stuff if you like it so much better, because nothing says "power of friendship" like blasting away foes with magical weaponized rainbow beams all the time.

    And if you really can't stand watching the show anymore because of this one single scene, there's still no need at all to constantly whine, moan and complain about it. No one is forcing you to watch it. No one is forcing you to like it. So... what exactly is your problem?
     
  10. Commander_PonyShep

    Commander_PonyShep An Everypony Regular
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    Perhaps.

    However, Dragon Ball Z was Dragon Ball Classic jumping the shark, namely by getting rid of all the childlike wonder and naivete to become grimdark and bleak. And, few of the ways Toriyama ensured all that grim-darkness is by sidelining too many of the supporting cast and emphasizing Goku, Vegeta, and their sons not for their personalities or character-development, but rather for their saiyan heritage and all the godlike, destructive power that comes with it. Power of friendship? More like power of mass destruction!

    Same for Naruto and Bleach, at least from what I got from other people's opinions. Naruto is all about his nine-tailed fox demon and its destructive, godlike power. Sasuke is all about his cursed mark and its destructive, godlike power, plus his emo problems and his need to kill Itachi, his older brother. And, Ichigo obtained so many power sources, including hollowfication, fullbring powers, and powers of a quincy, that he might as well be more like a walking nuclear bomb than a hero.

    As for their respective friends... they practically don't exist!!! Like Akira Toriyama, Kubo and Kishimoto just didn't know what to do with any of them, and so sidelined them and reduced them to extras. In other words, Kubo and Kishimoto were like, "Screw friendship and teamwork! Let's decide how much destructive firepower Naruto, Sasuke, and Ichigo packs, even if it costs us their friends' story-arcs!"

    One Piece, at the very least, did not jump the shark the same way as Dragon Ball, Naruto, and Bleach. Even in its current story-arc, One Piece emphasizes friendship more efficiently than DBZ, Naruto, and Bleach. The weakest members of the Straw Hat Pirates (e.g. Nami, Usopp, and Nico Robin) are still capable of themselves and their crew. The strongest members (e.g. Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji), meanwhile, have their powers at an evened out, limited level, so that they wouldn't render their weakest teammates useless.

    In other words, One Piece remains true to its roots, unlike Naruto, Bleach, and My Little Pony, which would abandon that whole "power of friendship" motif to become grimdark and edgy.
     
  11. Tasu

    Tasu The Knug

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    First of all twilights powers were temporarily, she only had them because all of three princess had given her theirs and in the end she lost them. Second, her friends helped her to defeat tirek. Third, a show can focus on friendship and still have awesome fight scenes (i'm telling you this again because you clearly didn't get it the first time, fourth, it wasn't even near grimdark and lastly, nico robin isn't a weak member of the straw hats pirates (she is atleast as strong as sanji)
     
  12. Hero Mode

    Hero Mode I like Rarity, that is all

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    I like Naruto as well as Naruto Shippuden but i'd still say it's a reference to Dragon Ball Z with maybe some GT in there as well however there are also Sailor Moon and Fairy Tail references in the fight too.
     
  13. Tyro D. Fox

    Tyro D. Fox Ho, hog, heg! I can does Game Dev thing, yes!
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    Can we all please cool our jets on this. I'm sure you've all said plenty already on the subject.
     
  14. Commander_PonyShep

    Commander_PonyShep An Everypony Regular
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    But at the same time, I am not getting that vibe from bronies. Instead, all I see is love for the Twilight/Tirek fight, and hate for the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle. As a result, I keep thinking that the bronies, even analysts like Tommy Oliver and Dr. Wolf, want the show to jump the shark, abandon friendship, sideline Twilight's friends and even murder them, and over-empower Twilight, just like with Naruto, Bleach, and DBZ.
     
  15. Bot-chan

    Bot-chan A Pony Every Pony Should Know

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    I still don't see how you are making that jump. "Oh no, people don't like the overpowered Rainbow Power and the ugly replacement for the Golden Oak library! Surely they must all want the supporting cast to die and want the series to become yet another generic anime rip-off. Waah waah waah!"
     
  16. Commander_PonyShep

    Commander_PonyShep An Everypony Regular
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    So what you're trying to say is that my logic about what the bronies liked and didn't like about the Season Four finale was broken, backwards, and illogical. Right?
     
    #16 Commander_PonyShep, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  17. Tasu

    Tasu The Knug

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    Just because people like one fight scene doesn't mean that they want the show to abandon everything that makes it so good and the reason why people hate the rainbow power thing is because it looks ridiculous, also why do you think that people wants twilight to murder her friends?
     
  18. Commander_PonyShep

    Commander_PonyShep An Everypony Regular
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    I'm not saying Twilight should murder her friends, even though she might as well do so, anyway, because of how much of a power imbalance there is between her and her friends. Technically, what I'm implying is that, if Meghan McCarthy really wanted to go all the way, she should just murder Twilight's friends to display how useless they are, and that the bronies should like that just because they were accustomed to it in Dragon Ball Z. And, one of the ways she could do that is by letting some overpowered villain violently murder them, like Tirek for example.

    Also, this need to hate Rainbow Power and the Rainbow Castle because of their designs and story usage all just reinforce how much bronies deliberately abandoned friendship for the sake of seeing that power imbalance between Twilight and her friends. I mean, they both symbolize Twilight's strong bonds of friendship with her friends, and the way they are still useful to her despite their differences in power! And because you hate those two things, that you now want Twilight's friends to be useless, disposable extras who might as well be murdered, and Twilight to be an overpowered god of destruction on the level of Goku, Ichigo, Naruto, and Sasuke?
     
    #18 Commander_PonyShep, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  19. Tasu

    Tasu The Knug

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    That is the stupidest thing i have ever heard, people can hate how the rainbow power and that castle looks without wanting the show to abandon friendship. Some people don't like king sombra but that doesn't mean that they never want some sort of villain to appear in the show.
     
    #19 Tasu, Aug 6, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2014
  20. Commander_PonyShep

    Commander_PonyShep An Everypony Regular
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    So you simply hate the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle for the designs and story-usage, not the symbolic value.

    Well, if that's the case, then what about the symbolic value itself? Why does everyone keep ignoring the symbolic value to both those things, just to focus on superficial aspects?
     
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