Male Allicorns?

Discussion in 'General MLP Discussion' started by Shojolove, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. Toaster Repair Pony

    Toaster Repair Pony Gigantic Member
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    1. I'm not really a big fan of Alicorns, but that was the point of the op. Fair enough though, that's down to personal opinion.
    2. I wasn't suggesting an additional main character, just the characters they interact with. I agree that would be a bad idea.
    3. Ships can be ignored, not exactly a huge issue.
    4. *****ing? When was I *****ing? I certainly wasn't trying to, I wasn't even complaing really, just saying it might be a nice idea for the writers to incorperate, not gonna go on some rampage if they don't.
    5. Yes. In fact that was one of my previous points.

    I'd actually be happier with more of the other species than more male ponies, but again, it's all just opinion I guess.
     
  2. Heimdall

    Heimdall The wiking expert

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    Why?
    It isn't like the show needs anymore charachters that will be in one episode and then disappear for ever.
     
  3. Shojolove

    Shojolove New In Town

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    Yeah, just a few males. I would be happy with one (pun) mane male character. Honestly, I think I could go a while without hearing about the cutie mark crusaders so that would make room for a male, let alone a male alicorn. It's an avenue that they have yet to explore so I hope they think of it before they start using any jump-the-shark tactics.

    Also, what if an alicorn wasn't royalty? What if they just decide to make an alicorn commoner? I know it goes against the "rules," but it seems hating alicorns is a thing due to a lack of good story. I, personally, like alicorns except for this tiny feeling of elitism, but I love Princess Cadence. I like how she has stories without Shining Armor. I was reading an mlp wiki about Princess Cadence being a pegasus as a baby? Is this accurate?

    As for Spike, I don't hate him; just smaller doses, please.
     
  4. Spline

    Spline An Everypony Regular

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    I don't see why there wouldn't be male alicorns, but since the show is female-centric & Equestrian society seems to be a matriarchy maybe the male alicorns all occur offscreen. I don't think it should necessarily be against canon for male alicorns to exist, but it makes sense for them not to be shown. Looking at the vast majority of other shows on television, both live-action & animated, the male cast tends to outnumber the female cast & a great number of shows, regardless of male-to-female cast ratios, are not able to pass a Bechdel test. Having a show that's targeted at girls, about strong & diverse female characters whose ambitions don't revolve solely around "traditionally girly" interests, is more important than forcing gender diversity.

    On another train of thought, G1 had male ponies that were ONLY regular ponies, with no unicorn or pegasus variants. In fact the first Pony Family toys debuted in 1988, several years after the line's creation. Prior to that, baby Ponies were depicted as small clones of their parents/siblings or orphans instead of being a mix of imaginary sets of genetic material. Perhaps given how far male ponies have progressed since the first incarnation of a MLP cartoon, having them in a position of obvious power or prestige as alicorns would be uncomfortable for the writers.

    Spike was a "main character" in G1, much like Megan was... with a parade of ponies around them matching the newest MLP toy line that Hasbro wanted to push. (Arguably, for several of the episodes & the movie featuring them, the witches Hydia, Reeka, & Draggle may have actually been the true "main characters", in the literal sense, of the G1 MLP franchise... but that's a tangent.) Unfortunately as annoying as Spike may be sometimes, I think the nostalgia factor is winning out over good writing, a balanced cast of characters, or common sense. To which I can only say, SMOOZE IN NEXT SEASON PLEASE.
     
  5. Shojolove

    Shojolove New In Town

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    Sound Argument. I know I am shooting for the future in my search for gender equality. I was hoping that we had gotten over the "girls proving themselves" portion and I am hoping for the next chapter, "Boys, girls, who cares" section where characters will follow closer to the development found in the Walking Dead game (Lee specifically) in the sense that he's not a black guy just a guy that happens to be black. This is not to mean that him being black means nothing, but it's not all defining.

    I know that this seem contradictory to where this post started and where it went in asking for male characters. I'm not asking for 1:1 ratio so much that I am asking for a male on even heading with some of the main characters. That just because they are males, doesn't mean they are oppressive. And mentioning the small clones thing. It makes me think about where Pound Cake and Pumpkin Cake came from. I am happy that there has been some progression in the show in comparison to the other generations. I can be content with that.
     
  6. Toaster Repair Pony

    Toaster Repair Pony Gigantic Member
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    I agree, the strong female cast is one the the defining ideas of the show, and I think one of the reasons for it's popularity. I'm not sure the presence of male Alicorns/characters would necessarily change that though, as long as the existing female characters remained as competent as they are now, and didn't start conforming to archaic gender stereotypes, a little more diversity would be a good thing, right? I'm not arguing for equal numbers of male and female characters; I can fully accept that in this universe that may not be how it works, and I wouldn't want it to. I'm just saying that maybe the main characters having a little male competition at some point, and still coming out on top because of their skills and personality traits might not be a bad idea. Admittedly this is pretty much what the writers have done the few times we've had important male characters (Flim Flam brothers, Cheese Sandwich), so I guess what I'm saying is I hope they do more stories like that, and it might be fun if they did one with the Princesses rather than the mane six.
    Oh, and as for there being male Alicorns that we just haven't seen yet, I think the show's been written under the assumption that they don't exist, otherwise we would surely have seen them at the Grand Galloping Gala, right?



    I'm not an expert on previous gens, by any means, but I don't think there's a lot of overlap between the previous writers and the current ones is there? Not sure how important nostalgia would have been when they wrote the first season, seeing as how none of their target audience would have had any idea who he was, some parents might have I guess, but Brony wasn't even a concept back then.

    And with the way the collateral damage is increasing with each beginning/end of season fight, Smooze looks entirely plausable.

    - - Auto Merge - -

    Sorry, slightly off topic here, but, that's the Telltale game right? It's good then? If it's anywhere near as good as 'Tales From The Borderlands' I might well get it, think I've been put off by the show's terrible periods of stagnation :sigh:
     
    #26 Toaster Repair Pony, Feb 12, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2015
  7. Usagi Convoy

    Usagi Convoy Creeping out Toaster Repair Pony since 8/31/2015
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    Shojolove gave the answer better then I could in the reply that followed yours.
     
  8. Shojolove

    Shojolove New In Town

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    Walking Dead game is amazing. I think much better than Life is Strange, but I have yet to play the Borderlands one. I would seriously advise playing it. It also takes no characters or story from either comic or series (thank goodness on the later).

    As for the Galloping Gala, it could be that a male dominated society is rare for a reason and the one male alicorn is having a harder time ruling and is now a bad example for future male alicorns. Not that I think that should be a thing.

    Lioconvoy, thank you :):smile:
     
  9. Usagi Convoy

    Usagi Convoy Creeping out Toaster Repair Pony since 8/31/2015
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    Er, I don't think I did anything to be thanked for. If either of us should be thanked it's you for saying what I couldn't. I'm great at having opinions not so great at voicing them in a manner that people can understand.
     
  10. Toaster Repair Pony

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    It could be that there's a male Alicorn ruling a different kingdom somewhere, yeah. I think of Equestria as being like a country, and that there are other countries which Celestia and Luna don't rule over, where Zebras and Griffins and the like come from, so there could be a similar independent Pony Kingdom too.
    The only thing is Luna and Celestia controlling the day/night cycle, surely that would affect the whole planet, and thus raise them above the rulers of other kingdoms? Would other Alicorns have similar powers? Twi and Cadence don't seem to.

    - - Auto Merge - -

    Stringing together nonsensical noises then passing out? I do that too.
     
  11. Usagi Convoy

    Usagi Convoy Creeping out Toaster Repair Pony since 8/31/2015
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    More like instead of getting my point across what ever I say ends up either annoying or angering the other party.
     
  12. Toaster Repair Pony

    Toaster Repair Pony Gigantic Member
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    That seems to happen quite a bit on the internet; unless you're being deliberately provocative, it's usually the other guy's fault for misinterpreting you, accidentally or otherwise. Can't have a reasonable conversation with an unreasonable person.
     
  13. Usagi Convoy

    Usagi Convoy Creeping out Toaster Repair Pony since 8/31/2015
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    Happens to me off the internet too.

    Er, shouldn't we go back on topic?
     
  14. Shojolove

    Shojolove New In Town

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    I can imagine Celestia and Luna only ruling over a country as opposed to the planet. Although, don't we think it might be selfish of Equestria for controlling the sun? They may have a treaty with other countries about solar control (although I find that hard to believe). Maybe the other alicorns have a different ability that evens with controlling the sun/moon. Like preventing massive volcanoes from erupting or stopping tsunamis?
     
  15. Spline

    Spline An Everypony Regular

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    I don't believe there's any overlap between writers from the G1 cartoon & the current writers. I might be mistaken.

    One of the pitfalls that the G1 MLP cartoon faced was that there were no recurring pony characters. The ponies in the episodes tended to match the toys for that year's line. The only recurring "good guys" in G1 tended to be Spike & the human friend Megan & to some extent Molly. After G1, the human friends went away permanently & pony main characters were introduced, but given that the main ponies change in each generation I'd be surprised if it wasn't originally a matter of stability in the franchise.
    (Oddly enough, the My Little Pony Tales cartoon, which occurred around the same time as the death of the G1 toy line, is the only one that didn't eventually have an incarnation of Spike.)
     
  16. Toaster Repair Pony

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    This is why Alicorns are a difficult subject, It's as if they started writing them into the story without coming up with any guidelines for the species. Where do they come from? Are Alicorns born, or just transformed from other ponies? (Twi proves that the later is possible, but I'd say Cadence was always an Alicorn) How powerful are they; are Luna and Celestia really powerful characters who happen to be Alicorns, or are they only powerful because they're Alicorns?
    The problem with the writers introducing more Alicorn characters is that in order to make any sense, they'd have to start answering some of these questions. Now I'm not saying they shouldn't do that, I just don't see them dedicating an episode to it. Maybe they could do a comic or something though?
     
  17. Shojolove

    Shojolove New In Town

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    http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Princess_Cadance

    I'm not sure if this mlp wiki is accurate or if we are counting the books, but it seems Twi may not have been the only to transform.

    Let's not forget the different power-levels between the Alicorns. Candence has a nice shield, but that hardly compares to solar-kenisis. We could chalk that up to age since Luna and Celestia are over a thousand years old. Although, this brings up my next question. Since Twi is now an alicorn, does this mean that she will out live all of her friends by centuries? Will Cadence out live her new husband? I don't know how old ponies get but they certainly age and much faster than Celestia or Luna.
     
  18. Toaster Repair Pony

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    Yeah, I can buy the 'older Alicorn = more powerful Alicorn' theory, except that the very old and so presumably very powerful Celestia gets her plot handed to her by Queen Chrysalis, which I always found a bit weird.
    And yes, I assume Twi will now outlive all her friends, probably even Spike, now that she's an Alicorn. One of the many reasons I'm not a fan of that decision.
    Most of the Pony-age theories seem to believe they live about as long as we do, and we know that Luna and 'Tia have been around for over 1000 years, so the lifespan difference is definitely what I'd call significant.
     
  19. Tyro D. Fox

    Tyro D. Fox Ho, hog, heg! I can does Game Dev thing, yes!
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    Age doesn't necessarily counter a surprise attack that doesn't allow for any time to prepare and a Queen Chrysalis that is now likely hyper-powered, due to feeding off of Shining Armour's love for Cadence.

    It's in the text of the show as even The Queen herself is amazed at how well The Love-Powered Beam works. Although this epic romance only get's room in the IDW comics. The TV show gave us...The Fastball Special...

    [​IMG]

    Goofy moment, pretty decent card.
     
  20. Toaster Repair Pony

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    Not sure it counts as a surprise attack when you face off against/ threaten the one who then attacks you, I agree with everything else you said though.
    Oh, and I much prefer Chrysalis to Celestia, so I like to think my admiration helped spur her on to Victory! And she would've gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling kids!
     

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