Why are some people so against bronies?

Okay. So lets talk about that blog post. I'm sorry if I communicated it poorly, but didn't mean people are not allowed to hate MLP. I meant that its rude to come up to me, see I've got an MLP lanyard on or some other perfectly reasonable display (it could have been a sports team), look at me incredulously, call me names or tell me that they don't like what I'm wearing. If you don't like it, fine. Don't like it. You're not the one wearing it. And if you think its wrong that I wear it, I have every right to ignore you. If you assault me for ignoring you, that's a crime against me. Few judges would be swayed by the "He was provoking me by wearing a My Little Pony pin, your honor" defense. I'm just wearing a thing and minding my own business. I'd appreciate it if people would mind their own as well. Unless they want to be friends. I like having friends. Who doesn't? But it's my choice to engage in a conversation or not. Also the blog is a working theory, not a statement of ultimate truth. If you can give me reason to change my position I'll change it. You've already given me things to think about, but if you think I'm calling you names, sorry. If you think I'm some sort of reverse-bigot, okay. I'm not.

As I stated, I don't think its impossible that bronies attack people. I just find it unlikely. If a man attacks you, he might like My Little Pony. True. But that has no relevance to the fact that he's attacking you. If there was a true correlation he would be attacking you because he likes my little pony. In that case, everyone who likes My Little Pony should be put in jail, or if the jails aren't big enough, not permitted to leave designated pony ghettos. That's an obvious no-go.

Obviously, people are complex and can like a lot of things that have little relevance to their committing crimes. What I want to know is, have there been any instances of bronies attacking people because those people don't like My Little Pony or don't like Bronies? Am I more likely to be attacked for expressing a like of the show or am I more likely to be attacked for not liking the show?

Forgive me, I am new to the MLP world. I don't know about Derpygate or what Rule 34 is. I have a feeling that I don't like either of those things. So could I be excused from the mass of bronies that committed said acts? Perhaps it'd be better if we singled-out the actual perpetrators rather than holding all bronies accountable. Was it a large number of perpetrators? What percentage of bronies were involved?

I see your reasons, but I've got some questions and responses.

-What's wrong with talking about what you like?

-I don't do that. I only accuse people of that if they walk up to me and tell me I'm not allowed to like MLP (Granted, that's rare.) And maybe I'm wrong about them, but I can't ignore it's rather rude. Who goes up to strangers and criticizes them for the shoes they wear or the sports team they like?
-I accept that not everyone likes ponies. Most of my friends don't like ponies. The cohost for my podcast isn't a brony.
-I have never sent a death threat to anyone for any reason.
-So what if people turn stuff into ponies? Does self-expression equal forcing others to "convert"? If so, can anyone be allowed to express themselves?

None of above represent me, personally. So who, specifically, are you accusing? Is it really every brony that you feel this way about? Is every humiliation, every intimidation, every beating of a brony justified because of the actions of these specific individuals? Is it even justified for the perpetrators?

-You're right it's a decent show. But there's a lot of interesting stuff in it. Star Trek is a decent show, maybe 1/3 of the time. What you said could apply to Trekkies as well, or any fan base. Manchester United Fans are notorious, I'll give you that. But not every fan of that ball club is a hooligan. Hardly any are. But the ones who are make the news.

So are you opposed to fandoms in general? Or specifically MLP?

- - Auto Merge - -

To Yamet:

It's impossible to prove a negative. And people are presumed innocent until proven guilty. It's on you to make your case.

It doesn't feel good. It makes me feel awful when I've been "teased" the way you describe it. I'd call it bullied and harassed from how it feel to me.

Okay, I'll accept that's wrong. People should take responsibility for their actions. But I don't know about Rule 34 and what it is. I don't think breaking stereotypes is bull****. In fact I break stereotypes simply by existing. Can't help it. It's not like I'm going out of my way, here. I'm just being me. If that's a crime, I need to know how it hurts people.

Ah, so a kind of reverse-bigotry. Cool. Okay what do you propose we do instead? Why should I accept some stranger coming up to me and telling me I'm wrong and they don't like me?

So some of the time it's because of Sexism and Xenophobia, but not all the time? I think I can accept that, too.

 

I watch hockey, I like Frölunda. The problem is that I live in Linköping wich is were LHC has their home arena. As you might suspect there exist more people who likes LHC then people who like Frölunda in Lingköping. That means that when I wear my hat with Frölundas logo on it, some people will comment on it. Most of them will say stuff like "Frölunda sucks" or "Goddamn that logo is ugly". Are commenents like this unnecessary? No, because when I put on that I show that I like hockey and other people who likes hockey will see this and think "Hey, this kid likes hockey, I could talk about hockey with him". And stuff like "Frölunda sucks" happens to be a discussion about hockey. If I don't want to talk about hockey there is no need for me to put that hat on. It is the same with a pony shirt. If you don't want people to comment on it then don't wear it.

Also if I would go into a sport bar in Linköping with my Frölunda hat after Frölunda won the SHL, I would get killed, do you know why I would get killed? Because I was provoking all the LHC fans. A judge would say "This is your fault,Heimdall" before sending both me and the LHC fans to jail.

Also I don't think you're some kind of reverse-bigot. I think you're a normal bigot.

Well there was some fights at a local convention. One of them started because someone didn't like Fluttershy. Is that good enough? Also if we would follow that logic then everyone who votes for Vänster partiet should be in jail. Wait a minute that actually sounds like a good idea.

Like I said there once was a fight because someone didn't like fluttershy. Also go to babscon and say that the show sucks. I bet some bronies would try to kill you.

Rule 34 means if it exist then there's porn of it.
Derpygate. Someone found Derpy insulting and the fandom lost its ****.

I would say that about 97% of bronies were involved in derpygate in some way. The porn thing was smaller but a lot of bronies use this as an example on how they're victims in today's socaity.

Untill you prove that you're better then the rest, people will treat you like the rest.

Nothing, as long as you don't talk about it 24/7 like some bronies do. I can't even log into a history forum without seeing two bronies talk about what ponies they would keep as slaves or something like that.

1. You claim you don't do this kind of stuff, but so does everyone.
2. Untill you can prove that you don't do that kind of stuff, I will assume that you do.
3. I'm accusing every member of the brony fandom, even myself.
4. Yes, I feel this way about every brony, including myself.
5. In my opionion,those actions are justified.

There exist few fandoms that I don't hate. Bronies just happens to be one of those that I hate. I also hate Trekkies and furries and so on,

 

I think people are against, bronies, because 1. Its a girl's T.v show 2. People judge alot... and 3. Idk...

 

Okay, well I've heard your arguments. I'm not convinced you're right, but you've given me a lot to think about. So, thank you for that learning opportunity.

It is a basic logical fallacy to declare that because a person belonging to a group commits a crime, that all members of that group are guilty of that crime. That may indeed be the definition of bigotry. But I'm not going to judge you. I'll let you decide what you are, and I hope you find yourself innocent. I, on the other hand, refuse to accept your judgment of me. I have made every due diligence to listen to your point of view, and have found a few things I agree with:

1. All Bronies are people.
2. Not every attack on a brony is because of sexism or xenophobia.
3. Some Bronies have hurt people.

I do not accept the idea that I am guilty unless I prove myself innocent. I am innocent until proven guilty. It's on you to make your case to me. My mind is sovereign, like every mind. I have given you a fair chance to convince me that I'm wrong, but I'm not convinced by the argument. I'm also not convinced that 97% of bronies wish people to die. You can't get 75% of people to agree that the sun is hot. How are 97% of bronies involved? I wasn't even there. I heartily agree with you that Derpygate was mean and inconsiderate. How am I guilty? I'm not. But thank you for presenting your case.

I also don't agree that wearing the wrong sports team to a bar makes one culpable. In that case, A woman being attractive makes her culpable to being sexually assaulted. "She was asking for it." I will never agree with that. I do agree it's really dangerous to go into a bar wearing the wrong sports team. But what if that bar is everywhere you live? People have a right to express themselves. People have a right to exist, and they are right to defend their existence.

Rule 34 sounds like a problem that's not exclusive to bronies, so I will not hold them specifically accountable for all of rule 34. I will accept that some of them are guilty. I, personally find that kind of thing creepy, so I refuse to accept blame for rule 34 as I do not participate in it. I would bet there are plenty of bronies who feel like me, too. and its unfair to lump them in with the high-profile others. It's really "sexy" to depict bronies as sort of creepy stalker/predators. I believe this is a stereotype and a largely untrue one. I am not. I refuse to believe that all, or even most bronies are.

And So I come back to my original question. If it doesn't hurt you, who cares? Your opinion of me being a bigot doesn't hurt me because I don't believe it, and I don't care. Perhaps Bronies should treat haters likewise. But still, all you can do is try to hurt my feelings. People in a brony's home town can do worse. That shouldn't be allowed. No one should have to hate themselves. No one should be afraid to express their love of something. No one should be made to feel shame because of what they love. So I'm afraid I have to disagree with you.

Dude, you hate me for a lot of "reasons." Okay. That's your opinion. It's irrelevant to my experience. I'm sure you'll say the same about me, but I don't hate you. I'm sorry if that means we can't be friends. And wish you luck in finding the peace you need to stop hating yourself for silly reasons.

Deserted Spider: Beautiful Argument.

 

0.o
Good job.

 

People are against Bronies because human beings need something to hate, and Bronies are an easy target.

Is that a simple enough answer?

 

Thanks Diamond

Ridley, I'd agree that seems to be the case some times. Hating things is easy to do, makes you look cool and knowledgeable, and gives you power. Its much harder to express your love for something. It makes you vulnerable, and exposes your heart to the world. Loving something requires courage and strength. It is in all ways admirable to me. Hating something is as easy as lobbing grenades over a stone wall. It takes no personal integrity or skill, but makes you look like you have both. It really is the dark side of the force.

Do you know about the symbolism surrounding plum blossoms? They're my favorite flower.

 

I found it funny that you call me a bigot right after you said "But I'm not going to judge you".
Also for someone who is so quick with judging people, you seem to not like being judged.

1. I disagree, everyone is guilty until proven otherwise.
2. Is there an argument for why people are innocent until proven otherwise?
3. I never said that 97% of bronies wish people to die. I said that 97% of bronies was involved in derpygate some way or another. .

1. A woman being attractive doesn't make her culpable to being sexually assually assaulted. However maybe it could have been avoided if the woman didn't wear shoes that she couldn't run in.
2. If people want to be different then they should be ready to fight for it.
3. If you don't have the balls to wear a piece of clothing then why the hell do you own it?

1. What proof do you have that shows that you're not participating in rule 34?
2. I don't think you know what sexy is.
3. I think that that stereotype is true, and I will do so until I see evidence that shows me otherwise.

1. I do not hate you (that much), it's the fandom I hate. Do you see the difference?
2. Why the **** would I hate myself? I love myself more then anything.

 

I'm not calling you anything. But if you refuse to believe that, that's your choice. It's not true, but okay. Your logic is circular. "I'm judging you because I'm judging you." PS: I really mean it. I'm not judging you.

The rest of your arguments are nothing new, same fallacies. I'm still unconvinced.

Half the human population doesn't have "balls". Testosterone, and "fighting for it" should not be a requirement for having rights. Luckily, I rarely need to fight for my rights. Others aren't so lucky, and that's the point I'm making. They shouldn't have to. It's not right that people oppress them. They shouldn't have to fight anything. If it doesn't hurt people, who cares?

There are plenty of Political science and ethics text books that explain the reasons behind "Innocent until proven guilty." So I won't explain it here. Needless to say, where I live, this is a given and I'm super-thankful it is.

LOL! I don't know what sexy is?!

You're welcome to your stereotype. It isn't true.

Also, I don't have to display my sexuality to you as proof against an unwarranted accusation based on nothing but your opinion. I am not surrendering my dignity to you.

I'm glad you don't hate me (that much). That's downright friendly of you. But I think its silly to hate a group whose boundaries can't be defined, among which every member is a sovereign individual. I think it's shallow to judge a person on literally one dimension of their personality. I think it's foolish to judge at all. The only relevant question should be is "it hurting other people?" Displaying your love for a TV show hurts no one.

 

I almost envy you.

The way you talk about hatred, I doubt that you've ever felt a moment of real hatred in your life.

Let me tell you that true hatred is not easy.

It destroys your ability to see the good in people, and forces you to focus on their worst qualities.

It ends friendships, tears apart families, and makes it almost impossible to form any kind of relationship with another human being.

The worst part is, there's almost no upside to hatred. It's nothing more than self-destructive energy that slowly strips away everything you are, until there's nothing left but bitterness.

 

Wow, Ridley. I suppose you're right.

Hate isn't easy to maintain for me. You really have to add fuel to the fire constantly. I can never hate someone for very long. It's just exhausting. In the moment, yeah. Sometimes. But not for long. My short term memory doesn't allow me to remember it. Might have to do with a history of psychological trauma. Everyone's a little different

Love, on the other hand, that's hard. The plum blossom is like that. It blooms on bare branches, and makes the tree look like it's suddenly springing from death to life. It blooms in winter, when everything else is dead and white. It's so soft, so delicate, so little, so vulnerable and yet it will bloom in a hostile world through sheets of ice and snow. The flowers are white. They look dirtier than the snow around them, yet they are pure and fragrant. Utterly ordinary, yet utterly beautiful. When they break through the ice, spring begins. Spring isn't an inevitability of the seasons. The plum blossom, by its courage, breaks the ice and ends the winter. It is responsible for the spring. To me, this is what it means to love in a world full of hate. The plum blossom is my hero.

 

I'm going to point out that the majority of people in this thread (yourself included) judge those who dislike us (which happen to be a group whose boundaries can't be defined, among which every member is a sovereign individual). So what makes it okay to judge one group of people but not another? Why are those who judge us bad people while we can judge them?

 

1. You called me a bigot in the most passive agressive way possible.
2. Your logic is also circular. Remember "Bronies can't beat someone up because their bronies"?
3. PS: I don't beileve you.

1. You do realize that it's just a saying.
2. People shouldn't need to fight for their rights. I said that if people wants to be different then they should be prepared fight for it. And being different is not a right.
3. Everything have consecvenses

That didn't answer my question. Is there a argument for why people are innocent until proven guilty?

The word sexy can't be used in that sentience,therefore I doubt that you know the meaning of the word.

1. Can you prove that my stereotype is wrong?
2. If you want me too believe that you're better then the rest then you should have evidence to back that statement up.

1. You do know that you can still dislike someone without hating on them.
2.

3. If you're acting like most bronies do then you're making more people hate bronies and that hurts bronies.

 

good point, yamet.

So let's just abandon "groups" all-together, because that just gets us in strange arguments and generalizations in all directions. You're right, I have no right to judge the group of people that dislike MLP or disapprove of bronies. People are allowed to hate/disapprove of whatever they like so long as it doesn't hurt people. I don't understand why they would need to. But then again, they don't understand why I like the show either. I don't know them. They don't know us/me. So as long as we live and let live, and no one gets hurt, we shouldn't judge each other. Let's all just stop and deal with the realities that face us.

I think we can agree that wearing MLP merchandise or being in possession of MLP themed items is not a crime.
I think we can also agree that if/when bronies attack or belittle people, that is wrong.

What should you do if a person (or people) comes up and expresses that they don't like MLP after you have expressed a like for the show?
What should you do if a person (or people) calls you names or belittles you for liking the show?
What should you do if a person (or people) threatens you for liking the show?
What should you do if a person (or people) assaults you, or damages/steals your property?

Heimdall, it appears I am left with no defense. Since you don't believe me, we're just going to have to disagree with each other. I'm sorry for any offense or hurt feelings. For the record, I was not aiming to do either of those things.

 

What a great idea!

 

HA! Didn't see that one coming!

Okay, what I meant was abandon the notion of using groups to generalize about individuals. The traits of a group may exist "in the cloud" so-to-speak, but if you apply those traits to any specific individual, you'll find there will be differences.

In support of differences, it's necessary to abandon the notion of thinking about groups.

Nice one, Ridley!

So I meant that we should focus on individual occurences and leave groups to the statisticians.

 

1. Nothing, they have a right to dislike things.
2. Tell them to stop and walking away.
3. Call the police
4. Call the police.

 

Fair enough, Heimdall.

I would add my reaction to number 1 depends on how the person talks. If it's clearly hostile and they're not interested in a conversation between equals, I'd probably end the conversation quickly and maybe walk away.

 

I make a thread asking for ideas for rides in Disney World, and I get "they should show tourists the sweatshops they totally have, even though I have no evidence to back up that statement".

I make a poll about foreign cuisine, and I get the stereotypical chest-thumping "WHERE IS AMERICA, DAMNIT?" response.

I point out plot holes in episodes, and I get yelled at for "hating the show" even thought I'm one of its biggest fans.

And several users openly said they hated children, like it's something completly normal as opposing to one of nmost horrifying statements one could ever make.

So...yeah, if this board is any indication, they have every right to hate bronies.

"Love and tolerate"...how about actually living up to those words instead of mindless spouting them? You stand against EVERYTHING the show teaches us, everything it represents. For Celestia's sake, Spacebattles.com has better morals AND better manners than you, and that's a Warhammer-worshpping site about pop culture characters pummelling each other!