Trump-li-ness

I'm not saying she does or not.

 

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House for President!
Just don't ask to see his birth certificate...

Seriously though; Hilary may be a liar, but she'd still be better than Trump. Putting someone as angry, irrational and confrontational as Trump in charge of a nation as powerful as the US would not end well for anyone.

 

Donald Trump is a right-wing populist opportunistically pandering to peoples' fears and prejudices. This is coming at a time when the US two party system (in reality, a one party system, i.e. the Democrats and Republicans being two wings of the same Property Party) is becoming increasingly discredited in the eyes of millions. Polarization in general accompanies such processes, e.g. the rise of left (Syriza, Podemos, etc. in Europe) also coincides with a rise in the right (National Front, VVD, etc. in Europe). This process is occurring in a more distorted way in the United States, with the rise in left-wing sentiment reflected in support of Bernie Sanders (through the current party in power) and a rise right-wing sentiment reflected in support for Donald Trump (through the existing Republican Party). Political changes are not linear in process, and it isn't surprising to see distortions in the United States, especially considering that this country doesn't have any kind of traditional workers' party as has been the case in Europe.

Donald Trump's appeal and support base aren't monolithic in nature. Some of these reasons are less sinister in nature, and deal with various illusions people have in him. As stated above, the current disgust with the establishment politicians leads to people having illusions in Trump, as he is viewed as an "outsider." Additionally, while Trump's interests aren't any fundamentally different from the rest of the wealthy oligarchs in the US, Trump does come across as a "self-financing" guy that "cannot be bought." Added to this are the fact that his overall business holdings are intact in spite of previous financial problems and bankruptcies - some people fed up with the status quo have illusions in him being able to turn the US economy around in a similar manner. We also have some more left-leaning people who would simply choose to vote against Hillary in the event of Sanders not getting the nomination. The more reactionary basis of support is the more obvious one that has been getting attention in the news, i.e. racists, misogynists, fascists, xenophobes, etc. Trump is obviously pandering to them to get votes, but Trump is hardly some sort of fascist (we are talking about a classical "flip-flopping" candidate; Trump once came out in support of universal healthcare and a woman's right to choose, and let us not forget that the Clintons were guests at his wedding). While this opportunist has railed against immigrants, China, etc., he has hired immigrants before and relied on Chinese workers. His opportunistic rantings about a border wall (financed by Mexico) and deporting 11+ million illegal migrants are not remotely plausible in nature, and these things would not be accomplished even if he won the presidency. Such opportunistic rambling provides for scapegoats to distract attention away from the austerity policies imposed on us by the capitalist oligarchy in this country, but it won't fundamentally change the status quo.

Those of us who can "see through" Trump have opposed him from the get-go. However, even if Trump becomes president, the appeal he has with many within his support base will transform into its opposite. Trump, as a billionaire, will defend the interests of billionaires. This means living standards for workers continuing on their downward trajectory. His perceived status as an "outsider" will be shattered in the process. People will see that he will not "turn around" the economic situation for the majority of people in the United States. Being "politically incorrect" may result in Trump being seen as a "straight talker," but it won't put food on anyone's table. Not to mention that it will fail to reverse the demographic changes that are giving blacks and Hispanics more political clout. Donald Trump, while reactionary in nature, is just one of the distorted manifestations of a corrupt political establishment being in crisis. The political landscape in the US is changing, and it will never be the same. I am quite interested in the overall move to the left among many in the United States, and even parts of Donald Trump's support basis will not be immune from it. Events will eventually push people into supporting formations outside of the traditional two party system. I am most interested in the prospect of a mass labor party being formed and interest in genuine socialism growing.

 

I figure it like this:
Trump will either be the greatest president we've ever had, or will lead the country to anarchy and ruin.
Like, 50/50 shot.
Either way, I come out ahead.
Go Trump.

 

From a few people I've heard from, it's like this: "Trump's bad, but the others are worse,"

 

The problem with socialism is that when everybody is equal, there's no incentive to be exceptional.

 

Kinda like Starlight Glimmer "Our Town". Kinda.

 

I'd say that Starlight's town was basically a cult founded on socialist values, so yeah.

 

I get voting for the most interesting option, but let's be real here; you've had Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt as Presidents, ain't no way Trump or anyone else bests those two.

In fact, I say confiscate Trump's billions, then use them to resurrect or clone Lincoln and Roosevelt, then just let them alternate between terms for the rest of history!

Problem solved.

 

Lincoln was a warmonger and a racist.
It's funny how freeing some (not all) slaves (for political and military reasons, not moral) gives you a free pass in the history books.

Hell, if we're gonna resurrect anyone, let's resurrect Washington.

 

Woah, hold the phone; the guy who despised slavery and emancipated the slaves is a racist, and the guy who actually claimed ownership of hundreds of people because of the colour of their skin isn't?

How'd you arrive at that conclusion?

 

I didn't say that Washington wasn't, I'm just saying that Lincoln was.

“There is a physical difference between the white and black races that will for ever forbid the two races from living together on terms of social and political equality.” -Abraham Lincoln

"I agree with Judge Douglas that [a black] is not my equal in many respects, certainly not in color - perhaps not in intellectual and moral endowments; but in the right to eat the bread without leave of anybody else which his own hand earns, he is my equal and the equal of Judge Douglas, and the equal of every other man." -Abraham Lincoln

Lincoln, like most other whites in his time, believed that blacks were mentally and morally inferior to whites.
He also proposed solving the problem of slavery by creating a new colony for freed slaves, an idea which would eventually be put into practice by the formation of Liberia.

 

I think this is a generalization spread around by people who were scared of the Reds back in the 50's-90's. There are many democratically socialist european countries; and these countries are beating the US in education, individual happiness, and per-capita income. Not to mention that they make some of the most technologically advanced equipment so far due to their heavy R&D spending, not counting the asian market.

All that stops you from being exceptional is effort; to tell someone that they only matter if they become exceptional themselves is a trite statement to make.

America is already partially a Democratic Socialist country, with benefits like Medicaid, our (shoddy) public schooling system, social security, etc.

The problem lies in that the government spends more money trying to bail out banks than it does trying to bail out the american populace.

 

Eh, still freed the slaves when no-one else would. Makes him a pretty cool cat in my book.

 

This is a classic straw man fallacy. Marx himself explicitly rejected this notion of literal equality under socialism.

Slavery's demise was objectively hastened by the Union army smashing the Confederacy. Regardless of Lincoln being a product of his time, he effectively waged a revolutionary war on slavery and cleared the decks for capitalist development (it still played a progressive role at the time) in the Southern USA.

Speaking of Lincoln, this house we have today divided against itself cannot stand. The conflict between the interests of the wealthy oligarchs and the rest of us will have to be resolved one way or another in the long run. Again, Trump and Sanders are simply reflecting this in a distorted manner. The Postwar boom and subsequent factors that kept things going afterward (credit boom, cheap consumer goods caused by unprecedented expansion of world trade into China and rest of ex-Stalinist world, etc.) are over. For an entire historical period, Wall Street was able to buy off Main Street. Not anymore.

 

Some, not all.
Technically, he only freed the slaves in the states that had seceded, intentionally keeping slavery legal in the slave-holding border states that had not seceded.
What this essentially means is that the only slaves that he actually had the power to free at the time remained slaves, while the slaves that he supposedly freed remained slaves under the Confederacy.
He wasn't a humanitarian, he was a politician.

The American Civil War was an ugly time in history, but it's important to remember that it wasn't a clear-cut "Bad guys vs good guys" fight.
Both sides were guilty of starting the war, and both sides committed terrible atrocities during the fighting.

 

I agree with this bit, and I'm too drunk to argue about the rest of it