Trump wins. Now what?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Fenris Rose, Nov 12, 2016.

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  1. Usagi Convoy

    Usagi Convoy Creeping out Toaster Repair Pony since 8/31/2015
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    It's not a lie it's an assumption. Not one that has any grounds. Does Trump talks trash, yes. Does he hate half the people he talks about, doubtful. He said what he thought people wanted to hear. He's just as guilty of hiring Illegals as the other holier than thou muckity mucks.
     
  2. M14Brony

    M14Brony Turns the friggin' frogs gay.
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    "Spreading bull*squee!*" sounds awfully similar to what Trump did on the campaign trail.
     
  3. MidnightShadow

    MidnightShadow Shadow Alicorn (And Secret Admin)

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  4. Usagi Convoy

    Usagi Convoy Creeping out Toaster Repair Pony since 8/31/2015
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    The Communist party supported Clinton. Just because they have the support of a hate group doesn't mean they're a member.
     
  5. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    They endorsed him, and he rejected that endorsement.

    That does not mean that he's a member of the Klan, it means that a member of the Klan announced that they liked him.

    Again, he's not a member of the Klan. Never has been.
     
  6. MidnightShadow

    MidnightShadow Shadow Alicorn (And Secret Admin)

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    just supports similar views

    dem Mexicans taking all the jobs, lets get rid of them, sounds familiar
     
  7. M14Brony

    M14Brony Turns the friggin' frogs gay.
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    It doesn't, but opportunistically pandering to such groups isn't remotely productive. Trump showed his true unprincipled nature by doing an about-face by telling hate groups to "stop it". However, I can see him scapegoating minorities and pandering to hate groups again in the not-too-distant future to divert attention away from his inevitable failures. Perhaps is isn't an accident that he has an establishment insider like Reince Priebus as Chief of Staff and a militant, right-wing racist and anti-Semite like Stephen Bannon as a chief strategist. The opportunist has various types to lean on for a policy of contradictory zig-zags.

    As far as the silver lining I see in Trump's victory:

    1. The rotten Bush and Clinton dynasties fell like houses of cards.

    2. Trump will be discredited more immediately, as opposed to him gaining traction as an opposition figure saying "I told you so!" after Hillary's failures.

    3. Left-wing types repulsed by the nature of Trump and the bourgeois oligarchy are beginning to realize that they simply can't sit around and wait for things to get better.

    4. The reduced likelihood of any sweeping anti-gun legislation at the federal level. This deprives the NRA of an excuse to artificially induce a panic and drive up prices on firearms, ammunition, and accessories.

    5. The liberals pushing the "lesser evil" strategy have been utterly discredited (decades of this nonsense paved the way for Trump).
     
  8. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    I work construction. I see it every day.

    Illegals ARE taking American jobs. It's a fact.

    I can even tell you how they cheat the system to work without legal documents, because one of them explained it to me.

    I can give plenty of reasons why we need to send illegals home, but quite frankly, I doubt you'll listen, because you've already made up your mind.
     
  9. MidnightShadow

    MidnightShadow Shadow Alicorn (And Secret Admin)

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    No the issue with trump is how he has won.

    Hes made it ok that Women in america can be abused and its ok, because apparently 'grabbing you by the pussy' is acceptable there now.
     
  10. M14Brony

    M14Brony Turns the friggin' frogs gay.
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    Powerful business interests profit from illegal immigration, hence such an "issue" never being "resolved". It's a great way for employers to increase profitability in fields of work that cannot be easily offshored. These people are kept in an illegal status so they can be blackmailed into accepting less than the minimum wage and never forming unions. It also benefits the bosses for the "Americans" and the "illegals" to be at each others' throats instead of uniting against the multi-millionaires and billionaires paying everyone peanuts.
     
    #70 M14Brony, Nov 19, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  11. MidnightShadow

    MidnightShadow Shadow Alicorn (And Secret Admin)

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    yeah its all the immigrants fault.

    Not the fact that there wouldn't be doing American jobs if Americans could be assed to do those jobs in the first place.

    And don't give me the bull*squee!* that they get paid less so they get the jobs.
     
  12. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    Yeah, again, that was a private conversation between two grown men ten years ago.

    Of course, if you want to talk about abusing women, we can always talk about how Hillary referred to Bill's conquests as liars, bimbos, and trailer trash.
     
  13. MidnightShadow

    MidnightShadow Shadow Alicorn (And Secret Admin)

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    Still making people do it in america, since they believe it is ok.
     
  14. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    I'M an American citizen. I'M doing one of these jobs that Americans supposedly won't do. That claim, while popular, has always been false.

    When immigrants come into a country en masse, they flood the job market, resulting in a greater supply of workers than there is a demand.
    As a result, wages go down.
    That, among other reasons, is why immigration is controlled.

    The massive population of illegals in this country creates a surplus of labor, which in turn creates a job shortage, which in turn allows employers to hire people desperate for a job at substandard wages.

    And yeah, it is partially the fault of the employers that take advantage of the surplus to lower wages, but nothing changes the fact that illegal immigrants are breaking the law.
    They do not have a right to live and work in the United States, and by being here, they devalue American workers.
     
  15. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    No, he's not MAKING them do anything. They're doing it because they choose to do so. Nobody believes it's okay, and if they do, it wasn't Trump who made them think that way.
     
  16. MidnightShadow

    MidnightShadow Shadow Alicorn (And Secret Admin)

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    want me to explain better?
     
  17. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    Please do, because you're kinda making it sound like Donald Trump has the ability to override free will.
     
  18. Empyrean Nikkou

    Empyrean Nikkou Transient Existence

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    Out of curiosity, has there been a determination of how much early voting affected the turnout, in light of the FBI's actions?

    On the subject of illegal workers: I place more blame on our side than theirs. They come here for reasons that are universal, stemming from basic human needs. Our country decided to regulate the process and influx of immigrants, so I can't blame them wherever enforcement fails (which is often caused by greed, among other unsavory things). It'd be like blaming the rain for a leaking roof.
     
  19. MidnightShadow

    MidnightShadow Shadow Alicorn (And Secret Admin)

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    Alot of his campaign was; Anti ISIS, Anti State and Anti mexicans.

    Regarding ISIS, he wanted to be crushed within 30 days, though the problem he causes is, he said that being a Muslim made you pretty much a ISIS recruit. Now this isn't the case, most Muslims are peaceful and its common knowledge that what he was saying was pretty much a overstatement, however you got a minority that think Muslims are the scum of the earth, having somone that supports your belief can only strengthen it and can estilate the hate towards that group.

    Same over here with Brexit, all these polish coming here taking our jobs, they are just doing jobs that we are too lazy to do ourselves. A small minority hate the polish due to this belief, and probally content themselves with complaining and hostile glares whenever they meet a polish person. Now if you fuel your belief, you start estilating, from hostile glares, to verbal abuse to then physical violence.

    Sad case was that hate crimes against foreigners increased after the brexit vote, it is still higher then it was pre- brexit.

    The hate crimes against Muslims due to ISIS has also been increased, since these minority that hate Muslims feel justified in committing these crimes against them.

    Trumps views on, "these mexicans are illegally stealing americans jobs, im gonna build a wall to keep them out, and they can pay for it" while that is true in some cases, forged documents etc. Most mexicans are legally within the USA, and have legal jobs. Though trump being anti mexican gives the people already anti mexican more courage to react towards the mexicans, normally in more serious cases.

    Instead of a few muffled words about mexicans causing you to queue in a supermarket, or a glare when you see one, because he stole a good americans job. Your going to estilate again and end up being more abusive, which could turn physical.

    Its quite a nasty spiral really, more hate= more abuse= more violence= problem.

    It could potentially start a Mexican/ American race devide, similar to the white and black race divide over there. Main point Obama made was not to infuriate that divide since it was already close to a riot in several places.
     
  20. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    While I understand the desire to be compassionate towards illegal immigrants, I think that compassion is not the answer in this situation.

    As long as there are American citizens going without basic necessities, then we simply do not have the resources to take care of people from other countries.
    I'd like that to change. I'd like America to get back to the point where we have so much that we can afford to help others. But we're not there yet.

    I've always believed in the idea of American Exceptionalism, which states that the United States is unique in its blending of cultures and traditions from every other nation in the world, and in the freedoms and responsibilities held by its citizens. An as yet imperfect model of what a unified world can become.
    It also states that it is the responsibility of America and all like-minded world citizens to work towards that goal of global unity. To eventually achieve real, lasting, world peace.

    The problem, however, is that this country is straying further and further from that path. We're no longer in a position to be a world leader, because we're no longer working towards a common goal.

    I believe that, with a lot of work, this country will eventually reach the point where we'll be able to help people in other countries by helping them make their countries as great as ours.

    But again, we're not there yet.

    In order for the vision I, and many others, have for the country to come to fruition, we have to get back on track. We have to reunify. Bring back the American spirit and American pride. Get people working again, at jobs they can be proud of.
    In short, we have to make America great again.
     
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