Physics from a Non-Brony: The Sonic Rainboom unraveled

Discussion in 'General discussion' started by Temporary, Jul 28, 2012.

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  1. Heck Yeah!

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  2. Not really?

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  3. ...I'm confused.

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  4. SCREW YOU RAINBOW DASH IS STILL FASTEST

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  1. BlackStar335

    BlackStar335 Blank Flank

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    Yesssss!!!!!11!1!!!


    thanks, now this is my proof, i did know that rainbow wasn´t mach 5 not even mach 3
    YEEEEESSSS
     
  2. LunarShield

    LunarShield The Doctor's assistant

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    The sonic rainboom is rainbow dash going at mach 10, fast enough to shatter the visible light spectrum hints the rainbow and explosion.
     
  3. Minterwute

    Minterwute Cookie Horse
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    Eh, there's an issue with this reasoning. The reason the sound barrier is "shattered" when an objects exceeds the speed of sound is that it collides with the pressure wave it creates (which we interpret as sound). This same phenomena isn't actually possible with light, since light does not produce any sort of measurable pressure.

    However, let's suppose it did. It would only follow that in order to "break" it, the object would need to exceed the speed of the wave, that is, travel faster than the speed of light. Given our understanding of physics, this is not possible.

    With Rainbow Dash this is even less likely, as (assuming this really is mach 10), she'd be traveling at around 3400m/s, which is 3.4km/s. The speed of light is defined roughly as 300,000km/s.

    QED. This is a cartoon. Analysis with this level of detail will only yeild results that cannot be correct within our own universe.

    TL;DR.
    Nope.

    Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
     
    #63 Minterwute, Oct 8, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  4. LunarShield

    LunarShield The Doctor's assistant

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    technically if you really think about it mach 10, 10 times the speed of sound, is faster than any human craft, even the SR-71 Blackbird (which went mach 7), has ever traveled so we don't know what could happen if we did go mach 10. heck the sonic rainboom could faster than the speed of light for all we know. all i know for certain is that it shatters the visible light spectrum.
     
  5. Minterwute

    Minterwute Cookie Horse
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    This is false by omission of relevant fact. No manned human craft has exceeded such speeds. However, unmanned craft - such as projectiles - have been made to travel at faster speeds. In fact, Voyager 1 is currently travelling at around 17.5km/s, that is, roughly 5 times faster than mach 10.

    Thereafter, the appeal to ignorance that is "we don't know how fast X is" is not a valid argument. There have been several compelling arguments as to what the speed is, and all of them point to the fact the speed is considerably less than that of the speed of light.

    Why? The amount of energy in heat produced simply from friction crested by an object travelling only close to the speed of light would most certainly annihilate both the object itself, and anything within a notably large radius around it. Given that Equestria wasn't obliterated the instant the Rainboom occurred, it's safe to assume that Rainbow Dash's speed is no where near that of the speed of light.

    QED. Magic. Not speed. There's your answer.
     
  6. LunarShield

    LunarShield The Doctor's assistant

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    i personally think if a manned human craft were to go fast enough we can achieve the rainboom. However we would have to go at the speed of light or faster, which no manned craft has successfully done. However i must agree that has to be magic that Rainbow Dash is able to achieve such speeds without any kind of protection and not die. however it is quite possible that rainbow is only travelling between mach 7 and mach 10 and the rainboom happens when she achieves max speed, the rainbow happens because of the rainbow trial that happens when Rainbow Dash flies fast, if this is the case then this can not really happen and no physics is required.
    Simply put: Rainbow Dash is fast.
     
    #66 LunarShield, Oct 8, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2014
  7. Dilly Star

    Dilly Star The Dilliest in the Galaxy
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    [MENTION=7134]Minterwute[/MENTION] is correct. Wanting something to be true does not make it so.

    It is possible that, in Equestria, all the laws of physics function entirely differently from our world and the premise of magic illustrates that fact. However, in that case, the speed of light in Equestria would not be functionally the same as the speed of light in our universe. The context is entirely different. By even deigning to ask this question we have created an impossible comparison. The idea that Rainbow Dash is moving at "the speed of light in Equestria, which also happens to be functionally much slower than the speed of light in our universe, where the rest of the physics in Equestria are scaled accordingly" is such a ludicrous idea based on wishful thinking that even suggesting it would point to a larger, more pressing problem: there is no reason to compare the physics in Equestria to the physics in our universe in the first place.

    Also, "no physics is required" is the most incorrect thing I have read, probably since forever.

    If your argument is that we can't really know the ultimate speed of Rainbow Dash or her sonic rainboom then I fail to see the point in asserting how fast said pony moves during the sonic rainboom. If you say "we can't know" and the rest of us are to accept that assertion (which has some sound quality to it, I admit), then you must also accept that we don't know whether the rainboom moves faster than visible light. You would have to accept that we know virtually nothing about the rainboom other than it takes place in a magical universe with talking horses and is supposedly kind of fast. Which gets us roughly nowhere in real-world comparisons (which, as I have stated earlier, are ill-founded and unnecessary).

    TL;DR There's no point, none of this can be confirmed, we don't have enough information, this discussion is silly.
     
  8. MorphinBrony

    MorphinBrony Me me big boy
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    There is another explanation, though...

    [video=youtube;RSf9aEETnvE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSf9aEETnvE[/video]
     
  9. LunarShield

    LunarShield The Doctor's assistant

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    i belive that it is only mach 10
     
  10. Airship McHoof

    Airship McHoof A Pony Every Pony Should Know
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    You guys read DC Comics?

    Ever heard of the Speed Force?

    I think that, when Rainbow Dash uses the Sonic Rainboom, she taps into a cosmic force similar to DC's Speed Force, and therefore can go as fast as she wants to go.
     
  11. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    Why do people insist on applying scientific theories to a clearly magical phenomenon?

    Remember, this is a world where rainbows are not just refracted light, but are actual physical objects.

    Things work differently in Equestria. Accept it and move on.

    Basically...
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Dilly Star

    Dilly Star The Dilliest in the Galaxy
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    Which you said, alongside the sentence where you said that it "shatters the visible light spectrum."

    I responded accordingly.

    EDIT: Perhaps an explanation is in order? The speed of sound is 340 m/s, and Mach 10 (in standard atmosphere) is roughly 3,400 meters per second. The speed of light is approximately 300,000,000 m/s (also in a standard atmosphere). Rainbow Dash would have to be moving at over Mach 882352.9411764706 to pass the speed of light. That is more than 10. Therefore, should could not move at Mach 10 and simultaneously "shatter the visible light spectrum" in our universe.

    My earlier point was that Equestria is fantasy and magic-based, so there's really no point in comparing it to our universe. As a matter of fact, there are so many unknowns that it cannot be done to any observable degree of accuracy.

    Ridley is correct.
     
    #72 Dilly Star, Oct 9, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2014
  13. Crimson Lionheart

    Crimson Lionheart Professional Sh*tposter
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    Magic? Real world physics?

    I know the answer....

    [​IMG]
     
  14. mike406

    mike406 Moderator
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    Simply put, if an object approaches the speed of light, it's relativistic mass increases infinitely in consequence to increase in kinetic energy, because the speed of light c is constant (solve E = mc[sup]2[/sup] for c). Everything would be annihilated in proximity to the object, including the object. It is physically impossible for man to travel near light speeds in any conventional manner and survive. Stop the nonsense. If you're a kid that's one thing, but then realize you have no idea what you're talking about, repeating more BS won't make you correct. If you're not, then read a book or something...And stop trying to justify these things to a cartoon.
     
  15. LunarShield

    LunarShield The Doctor's assistant

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    with the proper science and technology anything is possible. Modern human craft cannot achieve such speeds. but, look to the future when man kind needs to spread through space. I belive anything is possible with a little human ingenuity.
     
  16. mike406

    mike406 Moderator
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    Except the problem here is that is a completely baseless argument... Using a means of propulsion to achieve near light speeds without obliterating from deceleration, or interstellar Hydrogen and x-ray radiation killing you instantly, is just completely impractical from any theoretical or mathematical standpoint... I don't care what "innovation" humanity could find, it's a pipe dream with no attainable proof of being possible. So therefore it's completely baseless. I could say "innovation" by humanity could let us live forever, but there is no attainable proof to do so. Therefore there is no argument to be had.

    A paper shows an interesting POC on using an aspect of general relativity theory to our advantage, and essentially "warping" space-time around the craft to get to where it needs to go. So an arbitrarily large speed is possible, but no laws are broken, because only spacial distance between our craft and destination is changing over time, not the information (light) being transmitted. The craft still exists within its own local light cone (meaning that it isn't light that is being displaced). It's an interesting read, though I doubt it'll make much sense to you...considering your foundation on any sort of physics is ...well...non-existent. But an interesting read nonetheless.

    http://iopscience.iop.org/0264-9381/11/5/001/pdf/0264-9381_11_5_001.pdf

    tl;dr Obviously we can't prove or disprove what is currently not known, but that does not constitute a valid argument against what is currently known.
     
  17. Fenris Rose

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    Technically, it's possible to make an object move at faster than the speed of light using mechanical means.

    By attaching an extremely powerful motor to an enormous gear made of some kind of unbreakable material, you could theoretically create a gear ratio that ends with a gear moving at light speed or faster.

    Of course, building something like that would require technology that doesn't currently exist.
     
  18. LunarShield

    LunarShield The Doctor's assistant

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    use a titanium and diamond alloy with a dark matter propulsion system
     
  19. Fenris Rose

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    Or you could just use applied phlebotinum to reverse the polarity of the neutron flow. After that, just wave your hand to activate the the Deus Ex Machina generator.*

    *(Translated from Sarcasm) - I suspect that your grasp of science is, at best, incomplete.
     
  20. mike406

    mike406 Moderator
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    It's an interesting thought, but in my limited understanding of special relativity it just doesn't make sense and isn't really plausible. You can get it spinning to 99% of the speed of light, if you had the material to withstand forces, but you cannot exceed the speed of light if you have mass. We have gotten subatomic particles to 99% of the speed of light, but to get that one last percent, an "infinite" amount of energy is needed to accelerate that particle to c. As you get infinitely close to c, relativistic mass* increases infinitely. More "mass", more energy required. Since energy cannot be created or destroyed, your awesome motor will just burn out or run out of its finite energy source, no matter how great the pool is.

    *Relativistic "mass" is not the same as Newtonian or rest mass (what we know typically as the mass of an object). As we know that mass cannot be created or destroyed either, but at near light speeds, a phenomenon occurs that results in what is perceived as a mass and energry increase from an observer's reference frame. Relativistic mass.
     
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