You make an excellent point(s). (I'm kinda 'morning brain-dead' right now, otherwise I would add more. Good looks though.
Either way, I still find it rather... useless to over-analyze a cartoon, and I do mean ANY cartoon, up to and including Amazing World of Gumball - best cartoon ever made. I'm sorry, but I can't seriously critique a cartoon just simply knowing it's a cartoon. And I must digress, MLP is not witty, epic, or engaging, IMO. I've always found it to be a great, quality cartoon, but I've never seen a valid example smart humor or interesting, engaging, gripping, rip-roaring plot lines. Not to mention, villains like Nightmare Moon and Queen Chrysalis being praised for originality, when they've got to be the most uninteresting villains I've ever seen, in spite of everything. Nothing ever raises the bar for me. Season 2 was just as good as Season 1, in my perfectly honest opinion. Jokes are still as funny as they ever were, and plots are still as fun, if not a tad cliche, as they always will be. Ignore the other two Seasons, and I can pretty much guarantee that every persons' critiques would raise from 3's, to at least 7's. There I go with the pessimism again. I'm not belittling anyone with my post, I'm simply sharing my views. If my post offends you, than you're looking at it the wrong way, because I'm not attacking anyone at all. I apologize if that's the interpretation you're picking up.
*Shrugs* Cartoons aren't any less legitimate an art form than live-action cinema and TV. If something is layered enough to merit analysis, then it doesn't matter if it is animated or not. Of course, MLP is NOT layered. In this case, people simply enjoy talking about the show's characters and world. As to MLP being witty, epic, and engaging, YMMV I guess. I've found a lot to love in many of the show's episodes. Stuff I'd put up against the best American TV animation I've seen. You really have to compare things against the context from which they arise. You COULD compare ponies with War and Peace, I guess, but it would be a silly comparison.
What pony explosion said, insinuating animation is lesser then live action is just flat out wrong. All forms of entertainment have just as much right to be analyzed as the next. Heck IMO Animation is much more artistic, creative, intelligent, and entertaining then most live action programming on TV, especially these days. *Sans maybe Doctor Who and Supernatural, but again thats just my own personal opinion* Animation is a wonderful and creative form of storytelling and art that deserves much more respect then it gets.
That's funny because I'm the opposite. I think it's vital to analyze cartoons since both child-based and adult-based animation has become practically the de facto art form for expression and beliefs. Plus since a lot of cartoons are aimed at kids who are more susceptible to influence than adults and most parents don't care how much junk TV they're kids take in so long as they're not outright told to do drugs or worship Satan, I think it's important to anaylze these shows. So the fact that it is for kids is the reason why it should be analyzed. I'm not going to watch an episode of NYPD Blue and fear a million high school-educated adults are going to adopt the values of Andy Sipowicz. The only things I think should be analyzed are cartoons and political propaganda, the latter being very rare in live-action nowadays.
Not that SixCent needs it but I'm gonna come to his defense here. I don't see him insulting ponies or animation as a medium anywhere. I think y'all are just misinterpreting what he said. Though I don't agree with all of what he said I see where he's coming from. Ponies does have more engaging characters and story than most cartoons, but what I agree with is the part that its story still shouldn't be taken too seriously--not because it's animated, but because of its target market. Ten-year old girls won't be analyzing the material as deeply as twenty to thirty-year old men will. Adults are just a periphery fandom; while it's nice that the show appeals to us, primarily the writers' job is to go for the kids. I think this is what he means by "it's just a cartoon". There isn't any pressure on them to churn out the most incredible masterpiece of an epic they can, because they're just writing for kids. As long as they're producing a story that they would enjoy watching with their own kids, they're doing their jobs right. EDIT: D'aw, Tiger Tamer brought up more points. Regarding the ideas that get presented in children's shows: yes, it's important to analyze these. The themes and behavior that a cartoon shows to children should be carefully monitored, and personally I don't think that kind of monitoring gets done enough (though I'm more inclined to blame parents for this than the show producers). But I don't think that kind of analysis is the same thing as critiquing a story for its originality or the depth of its plot.
I don't think target audience *for media in general* is all that important these days outside of sales, after all Family Guy is aimed at "adults" as are many sitcoms and more often then not the writing in those is arguably just as much if not more base/juvenile/childish etc then a lot of "little kids shows" People pointlessly put things into cagatgories, demographics, cliques, etc, overall good storytelling should be judged on its own merits, not by what form it comes in or the intended demographic. Children's programming can be just as if not more intelligent and mature then content aimed at adults. But I digress, to each their own.
Again, I disagree. I wouldn't say the only point of target demographics is to decide who to sell the show to. Target demographic can determine what's allowed to be in the show, like themes or jokes, and how wholesome it is to show to children. Like I said, this isn't the same thing as how complex or compelling the storyline is allowed to be. As you said, Family Guy has little to no storyline and is aimed at adults; meanwhile a show like Avatar: The Last Airbender can have a very complex story but still be aimed at kids. You can also reverse the formula and get adult shows with complex stories and kids' shows with none. I see the demographic as a way of describing how clean the humor is, the general "feel" of the show (is it gritty or shiny, is it exciting or laid-back, will there be blood and gore, etc), and things of that nature. There's only a marginal correlation, if any at all, between the quality of a show's story and who the producers sell it to. But anyway... that's a discussion for a different thread. I think it's about time I made an on-topic post. lol I've actually sat down and watched more of Season 3 by now. And well, my biggest complaint is the lack of a Rarity episode. I feel like flanderization is hitting her the hardest now that she's stopped getting primary roles. She's supposed to be best pony. Call it frivolous but it's hard for me to pick a favorite episode, just because of that. Rarity needs moar luv. I might say Too Many Pinkie Pies is my favorite so far, because it showed Pinkie's charming side. I recall saying this in another thread but usually Pinkie is just used as an accessory for another character or for general silliness. I liked how this episode showed her more seriously with the extent she'd go to to spend time with her friends. And when she in the end wasn't even sure whether she was her own clone I found funny and sad at the same time. As for disliked episodes, Babs. I hated Babs. I hated, hated, hated, hated, hated Babs. Bullying is never okay to me and I hated her for even thinking it was. And I hated her for bullying the people who welcomed her to their club, no less. I don't get why someone would bully others who have something in common with them, just for fear of being made fun of for having that thing in common with them. Avoid associating with them, maybe. But bullying doesn't make any sense. I hated Babs for thinking it did. I don't think I can adequately describe how much I hated her without tripping the censor. The whole episode I wanted to choke that damned horse. EDIT: God damn I write too much.
People always seem to ignore the fact that she's still just a kid...filly...whatever. I stole $40 from my mom's purse when I was 6. Does that mean I'm a horrible criminal now? No, I learned my lesson and moved on. I still think it can be justified even if she was older given the emotional circumstance. She didn't do any permanent damage to anything or anyone and she apologized and changed her ways. Love and tolerance my a....flank...
I remember her destroying the Crusaders' parade float to show off in front of Diamond Tiara. Maybe if she had just stuck to insults it wouldn't be so bad. But that was permanent damage. An apology doesn't fix something three fillies spent days building. Things like this are why I don't understand kids.
It's just a parade float, and Apple Bloom seems completely okay with it now so why should it matter to anyone else?
If I were Apple Bloom I wouldn't be okay with it. lol I reckon the show just dropped the issue and moved on to illustrate that people are willing to forgive if you're willing to apologize and change. I'm not a fan of how simple they made it seem, though. Maybe there should be a future episode about holding grudges to complement a lesson like this.
Material Possessions > Love and Friendship Also, she destroyed the float by accident. If you watch that scene again it should be obvious by the look on her face.
I didn't mean to imply that forgiving others is ever the wrong thing to do. I only said that it isn't always as easy as the Crusaders made it look. I guess I'm just the grudging type but that was my take on it.
@Jenna: Yeah I think your being a little too hard on Babs, the point of the episode was to show how there are different types of bullies, just like there is any type of person, Diamnd & Spoon *as far as we know* Bully because their spoiled little brats who get joy out of others pain, that is to say, they do it for sport. Babs became a bully because she didn't want to go through what she went through in Manehatten. Does that justify her actions? No, but again she is still a child, one who got on a train and traveled 100's of miles away from her home just to get some peace & quite on the farm of some relatives she had never even met before in hopes of getting away from the horrors she faced, when she saw that the same thing could potentially happen to her in Ponyville as well, she decided to play the bully instead of the victim, she was a bully out of necessity & fear, she didn't want to be picked on the way she was back home so she became the bad girl. The important part is at the end she learned she didn't have to be either she didn't have to be a victim or a bully, she could stand up for herself & her friends and confine in friends & family what had been happening to her at School back home. *Which apparently she does as when we see her again we find out she's going to a new school, and has even made a few new friends* So yeah guess your just the begrudging type Jenna. XD But hey, to each their own.
1. Apple Family Reunion 2. Crystal Empire part 2 3. Crystal Empire 4. One Bad Apple 5. Too Many Pinkie Pie's 6. Magic Duel 7. Spike at your Service 8. Wonderbolt Academy
I'm not saying that it's useless to analyze cartoons because of the fact that they're animated, but more or less for the fact that they WERE meant for children, and while it's perfectly fine for adults to find pleasure in children's cartoons, it's still missing the point that this WASN'T meant for us, and we're kinda in no position to judge it. What I mean is... Here's an analogy: a public park was created mainly for children, but it's still fine for adults to have fun in it. Is it really fair to get angry that the swing isn't your size or that the slide isn't big enough? No, because it was never meant for YOU in the first place. You are correct, cartoons are still an official art form, but just because it's official and all, doesn't mean it's implicated that it was meant for everyone. It's like when a child says Raiders of the Lost Ark is boring and scary, do you take him seriously? His opinion is not the one that Spielberg was gunning for, so no you don't. The same applies in the opposite go-around; the cartoon was made for children, and as such, we can't expect consistency and wit, because children tend not to give the slightest crap about that. I believe now is a good time to evaluate that I don't follow the rules of love and toleration, being the misogynistic pessimist of a critic that I am. Anywho, as _Jenna said, Bab did bad in more ways than just verbal assault.
