Trump wins. Now what?

Discussion in 'Serious Discussion' started by Fenris Rose, Nov 12, 2016.

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  1. Xaniith

    Xaniith Princess of the Forum
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    I'll admit I've been pretty in the dark about this topic in the US, and I can't seem to get much straightforward information on it.

    So what Obama enforced with the order is all public schools to allow transgender students the ability to use the bathroom they identify as, not the biological?
    With this order revoked, what actually happens? Assuming another order on the same topic doesn't come to pass.
    Does it now mean that the individual states decide if they want to encourage the identity gender bathroom over biological? Or is it if you're born X, use X bathroom from now on?

    I'm also not very well-versed in the federal and state levels.


    From how I understand it, I think I'm with Ridley on this, to be honest.
     
  2. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    It's really hard to get straightforward information, because it's an immensely complicated subject.

    But yeah, that was the basic gist. Under Obama's order, schools were required to allow transgender students to use the facilities that matched their gender identity.
    Naturally, in the more conservative areas of the country, this was a wildly unpopular move.

    What Trump did was rather sneaky, in all honesty.
    Rather than taking a stand on the issue, his decision to rescind the order puts the federal government more or less in the clear while the issue is decided on the state level.
     
  3. Proxy

    Proxy Resident Lurker
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    Creeps are going to get into the bathroom either way. A law won't stop them. Kind of like how banning guns doesn't decrease gun violence.

    Most schools don't let trans students use the bathroom matching their identity, even with Obama's order. I hate the gesture behind Trump rolling back the protections, but it's not like it changed much anyway.
     
  4. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    What makes this issue so difficult is that there's no legal definition of "transgender."

    Traditionally, transgender implies a diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and a full-time transition to the gender that matches the individual's identity.

    The problem is that now being trans has become a fad. You've got people claiming things like "Agender" and "Gender-fluid" and "Non-binary DFAB koala-kin."
     
  5. M14Brony

    M14Brony Turns the friggin' frogs gay.
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    This isn't about stopping creeps from getting into bathrooms (there's no credible evidence linking transgender people in the "wrong" bathrooms with sexual assault and such). Trump is once again resorting to "culture wars" to divert attention away from his scandal-ridden administration's complete inability to raise living standards for blue collar workers. He is attempting to make it look like he is fulfilling campaign promises by falling back on bellicose rhetoric directed against certain types of brown people (travel ban attempts, border wall talk, roundups of some immigrants here and there, etc.). Demagogic appeals to his right-wing support base are destined to continue as the bankruptcy of Trump's administration (and the rule of bourgeois oligarchs in general) continues to be exposed.

    Trump merely benefited from a political vacuum that was created by Sanders's capitulation to the DNC. He never had any real mandate. The right-wing types to whom he appeals are on the losing side of history, and even some of them are destined to split away from him when Trump fails to deliver the sun, moon, and stars he promised. Deficit spending combined with tax cuts will prove deleterious to workers for years to come (Keynesian methods in themselves ultimately failed, but they were more well thought out than what Trump is proposing). Don't expect "The Donald" to pay for future crises caused by such policies!
     
  6. Xaniith

    Xaniith Princess of the Forum
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    https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/files/epress/Texas_et_al_v._U.S._et_al_-_Nationwide_PI_(08-21-16).pdf?cachebuster:75=&utm_content=&utm_medium=email&utm_name=&utm_source=govdelivery&utm_term=

    From what I've read, the guidance letter that Obama wrote had an injunction from from this district court, meaning that the 'guidance' was blocked since August.

    The rollback seems to have not actually changed anything. All Trump is doing is saying that the Federal Government isn't going to fight the judge's ruling.

    "Trump is not in a position to be able to fight for them if the executive would have had to in order to pass them. This is the stance he took from before. That he wouldn't support mandating social issues through federal government"
     
    #266 Xaniith, Feb 23, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
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  7. Dragonbait

    Dragonbait Do you like bananas?
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    North Carolina started this crap. And you are right, everything people are scared of transgender people doing is already illegal. Making a misdemeanor law is not going to stop someone from doing what was already a felony (sexual harassment, etc.).

    [​IMG]
    People caring about or doing this freak me out a lot more than a transgender person being in the same bathroom as me.
     
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  8. Futaba Sakura

    Futaba Sakura ep's resident romantic cuddler
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    I was never conserned about a trans person using the same restroom as me, not my business what someone has in their pants. People brought this *squee!* up to keep trans people from using the bathroom they prefer.


    I've never felt comfortable in either bathroom tbh. I honestly dont know wtf I am.
     
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  9. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    Well... sh*t.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...uana-industry-angered-by-white-house-reversal

    Trump promised to support the states' rights. That he "wouldn't support mandating social issues through federal government."
    The people of these states voted to make it legal.
    Jeff Sessions claims to be a supporter of states' rights, but I don't see how he can make that claim if he's going to let his personal feelings cloud his judgement.

    I really hope Trump isn't supporting him on this. He brought in Sessions because he wanted an attack dog, but now it's time to get the dog under control.
     
  10. Dragonbait

    Dragonbait Do you like bananas?
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    That has to do with this.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/doj-private-prisons-sessions_us_58af529ce4b0a8a9b780669a

    I mean, who do you want in your slave camps, sorry, I mean private prisons? Non-violent drug users or hardened thieves, murders, and rapists?
    The non-violent drug-users are much more productive while getting paid pennies per hour.
    :sigh:
    To hell with the whole administration, they are all scumbags. It's already blatant, they aren't even trying to hide what they are doing.
     
  11. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    It's gonna take a lot more than this before I write off the whole administration, but it still pisses me off.
    Up until now, Trump seems to have been making an effort to keep his promises, and I'm really hoping this decision isn't one he greenlit.

    Also, I came across an interesting (and surprisingly non-partisan) site that tracks Trump's progress on his "Hundred day plan."
    http://www.track-trump.com/
     
  12. Xaniith

    Xaniith Princess of the Forum
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    I came across this as well, and have been impressed to see what he's done so far, regardless if I agree with the decisions or not.

    There was a laughable headline from I think CNN, saying something like "Trump doing exactly what he promised" as a fear piece.


    Old news now, but I'm not sure what to think about Trump blocking select outlets from a press briefing. While I could kinda understand for CNN and NYT, I dunno about ones like BBC and politico. Fox news was supporting the blocked outlets, and I think two outlets let in left during the briefing.
     
  13. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    I'm all for putting the media in its place.

    Media has gotten so out of hand in this country that Chuck Todd actually had the nerve to claim that de-legitimatizing the press is "Un-American."
    I don't know about you, but I don't recall the media ever being a branch of the government.

    It's disgusting how openly biased the big media outlets in this country are. Just once I'd like to see a news report that focuses more on facts than it does fear-mongering or propaganda.

    I really don't know what the solution is to the problem of media bias. Obviously cutting access to the worst offenders is a good first step, but it's a hollow gesture when he's still letting Fox News in.
    I'd like to hear him, just once, chide Fox for being just as biased and unreliable as CNN. But that'll never happen.
     
  14. Xaniith

    Xaniith Princess of the Forum
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    I absolutely agree. CNN for sure. It may seem conspiracy theory-ish, but their interviews can be pretty.. suspicious, like when Sanders jokingly said fake news, his line to the host was cut temporarily. I saw a post listing about 10 or so similar instances for when their bias isn't working.
    I'm still not sure if all of those outlets deserved to be cut off. I believe all those who were cut were ones talking about something.. Probably the Russian ties or investigating Flynn and not the leakers.

    As an outsider, I can't say what would be un-American or not, but the media delegitimsed themselves for faking/exaggerating. The TA are just calling them out on it. To be fair though, Trump has said a lot of lies as well. As far as I can recall, most of them weren't meaningful, they were more ego boosters that weren't true, like the inauguration audience or the EC votes.
    The media lies are more important, since they're leading their viewers astray from the truth.
    What I would call un-American is the other end; telling the press what you want them to say, not the truth, which is leading into fascism.


    Oh my god, me too. I've reflected how I've been over the last few months, and I've been led into the fear mongering. I'm trying to take articles with a grain of salt now and look at sources and such, instead of reading headlines and panicking, running round in circles.
    I've also been watching some youtube channels that are more unbiased, cutting past the BS narratives.

    I've heard he gets a lot of his info from Fox, which I find troubling. Since he can't stand to be talked about negatively, it's his safe space, so to speak.
    For a while when you said cutting the worst offenders off I assumed you were talking about cutting off their broadcasting privileges or something. That would be cause quite the uproar.
    Its not great to have so few people be in control of so much over in the US.
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. Fenris Rose

    Fenris Rose Going Through Changes
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    I just don't know what to think anymore. The problems with this country are obvious, but it seems like nobody's willing to actually try to find enough common ground to work together and solve them.
    And that's really the biggest problem, isn't it? Extremism.
    Why does it have to be all or nothing? Why can't we meet in the middle sometimes?

    I've seen this country at its best, in the days after 9/11, before Bush and his cronies decided to leverage tragedy for the sake of a nefarious political agenda.

    I saw how people were united.
    Race, religion, sexual orientation, political party, nobody cared.
    We were all Americans.
    That was what mattered.
    That's how it's supposed to be all the time.
    I want that back.
     
    #275 Fenris Rose, Feb 26, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
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  16. Dragonbait

    Dragonbait Do you like bananas?
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    When we can get away from a two party system and care more about doing the right thing instead of "winning". I want to vote for a common sense party, one that doesn't care about partisan black and white issues and just does what makes the most sense for people of all races, religions, sexual orientations, whatever.

    At CPAC, Trump was STILL talking about Hillary Clinton. WTF? And the DNC isn't any better, they are deciding on "new" leadership and it looks like the same old mistakes all over again. I'm starting to see why people have given up on voting. :sad:
    /I'm still going to vote. Even in primaries.
     
  17. Curtis Wildcat

    Curtis Wildcat Raging Shopaholic
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    Hence why I'm glad I'm not a registered voter. Everything going on soars right over my level of comprehension; I mean, you'd think doing the right thing would be obvious, but I guess it's not? I dunno.
     
  18. Xaniith

    Xaniith Princess of the Forum
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  19. Dragonbait

    Dragonbait Do you like bananas?
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    I'm convinced that one of these days Trump is going to get on the podium and unironically say, "Hail Hydra."
     
  20. LostSanity

    LostSanity Official Anti-Brony
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    Then I can shout I TOLD YOU SO as the Second U.S. Civil War begins.
     
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